n0x-01 -- I Wonder...

[Kikinit]

With hindsight, I probably could have given in to his demand for engineering and he might not of attacked us. But I think your suggestions to turn research down for a while, upgrade and whip at the same time will see us through this. With a few macemen that we have coming up around the place, I think after we withstand the first wave we may be able to take a city or 2.

Julius will go to war for only music. We can afford that. Hatty wants civil service. I would prefer not to give that but I guess we can give it to her and then trade it around for whatever else we can get. Maybe give CS to them both as we might be able to get more from Julius than just a declaration. I prefer to sell to as many as possible to maximise the trades.

 

[Sina]

With hindsight, I probably could have given in to his demand for engineering and he might not of attacked us. But I think your suggestions to turn research down for a while, upgrade and whip at the same time will see us through this. With a few macemen that we have coming up around the place, I think after we withstand the first wave we may be able to take a city or 2.

Julius will go to war for only music. We can afford that. Hatty wants civil service. I would prefer not to give that but I guess we can give it to her and then trade it around for whatever else we can get. Maybe give CS to them both as we might be able to get more from Julius than just a declaration. I prefer to sell to as many as possible to maximise the trades.

I agree with all you said. It sounds like a good plan and I think we can survive.
A war declaration was inevitable once Mao switched to Taoism. I just hoped he's keep Hatty as his worst enemy until we reached Liberalism and could switch to Free Religion.
That was also the reason I said not to trade with Hatty. I wanted to avoid the "traded with our worst enemy" penalty.

Now we just need someone who is willing to play this.

 

[Kikinit]

Sina. Looks like there's only two of us left at this dance. You want to play 10? Then I'll have another go and with luck, we'll have someone come back or a lurker will become brave enough to give it a shot.

 

[Sina]

Yes, looks like I get to try to fight back Mao. I hoped to avoid that.

I'll get it and play it later today.

 

[Sina]

This will most likely be a partial and to be edited in pieces report due to overheating, dinner and phone call expectations. My report is rather long for 10 turns.

(0)1220AD

Ugh! On closer inspection the situation looks desperate enough to require drastic measures.
First action is to switch science off and see we gain 109gpt.
Mao is 4 turns away from Bombay and 5 turns from Bangalore.
We can under no circumstances afford to lose either of those cities!
Bombay has LB, Axe, Archer, Warrior and Archer + Warrior on the Marble.
Bangalore has Crossbow, Axe, Archer and a Crossbow on the Iron. Additionally there is a Pike on the way from Delhi which can reach both cities in time.
I think we could hold either city with 2 upgrades if he doesn't come with more. To higher our chances of that I will get as many allies in as possible. A quick check shows that everybody except for Huayna would join us for a price, that price being giving up our CS monopoly. I don't like that at all, but would like losing this game far less, so I'll go ahead.
I make the following deals:

JC: War + 30g for Drama
Hatty: War + World Map + 20g for CS
Genghis: War + 30g for CS and Drama

Mao should feel a bit "unwell" now.

Now the question is what units we want whipped. I am usure here. Mao comes with Ch-Ko-Nu and WE and HA. We have no good counter to that mix. Delhi will produce a Mace next turn, so I set Bombay to Pike and growth next turn.
Whip the LBs in Madras, Calcutta and Lahore.

The last thing I do pre-turn is to change civics to Theocracy.

IBT: Yippee Mao withdrew his attack stack from our territory!!!!!!!!!!
But he pillaged with AH from the N and has another one 1W of Guangzhou.

(1) 1226AD

Delhi: Mace -> Mace
Madras: LB -> Cat
Calcutta: LB -> LB
Whip Pike in Bombay for 2 pop

New danger assesment:
HA can attack Bombay, but should rather go pillaging.
HA at Guangzhou will likely pillage Horses.
Guangzhou has LB + Spear. This is the city I see us taking after the immediate danger is over.

Plan:
The whipped LBs stay in their cities for defense in case of a sneak attack (I did not buy in Alex!). This is most likely unnecessary, but I prefer being safe before being sorry.
Produce Maces in Delhi and Cats in Madras for an attack on Guangzhou.
Build another Pike in Bombay then resume "Wonder Duty"
Upgrade Axe in Bomay just in case, then save cash for more flexibility when emergency upgrades are needed.
All cities are safe at the moment.

IBT: Mao's HA pillage Spices and Horses. No sign of his SOD.

(2)1232AD:

Bangalore: Barracks -> Pike
Kill 1st HA with Bombay Pike and 2nd with Delhi Pike. Cover Delhi Pike with Mace.

IBT: Nothing!

(3)1238AD

Lahore: LB -> Cat, LB moves towards Delhi
The immediate danger seems to be over. I switch Delhi to Barracks to get better Maces.
Decide to reward myself with a glass of wine.

Fear of Overheating save of edit and decide to reward myself with another glass of wine now that it was mentioned...

IBT: Huayna wants to trade Wheat for Corn. That's the trade I missed in my last turnset. I agree this time.

(4) 1244AD

Madras: Cat -> Cat, moves to Delhi

Huayna has circumnavigated.
I see Mao's attack stack again...next to Neapolis. What do you think are his chances to take it?



We got a Great Scientist in Delhi. He can either build an Academy or research towards Education for us. Now this is a difficult choice. I go for the 2493 immediate beakers for Education. My main reason to do this is that we were forced to switch off research for a good number of turns due to the war emergency and I don't want to risk losing Liberalism because of that.
Please do tell me if I should have chosen the Academy if you have a good reason for that. I'm very interested in improving my game and constructive critizism is always welcome.
(You could also just tell me I'm bloody stupid, but, although that's a fact, it won't improve my game )

(5)1250AD

JC is an idiot. He only left a LB and a Spear in Neapolis. The rest moved out to go and attack somewhere while Mao and his SOD were merily bombarding his city. Stupid AI!

Research back up to 60% at +21gpt. We have enough cash in the coffers for 2 emergency upgrades. This looks ok to me.

(6)1256AD

Calcutta: Mace -> Mace, goes to Delhi
Delhi finishes Barracks and resumes Mace.
Bombay got a Pike and goes back on Spinal Minaret.

IBT: Mao sends another HA to pillage (a road he built) N of Bombay.

(7)1262AD

Delhi: Mace -> Cat

Cancel our planned attack on Guangzhou. They wish to join us on their own. Well, I see no reason not to welcome them.
Move LB and Mace towards it. It would be a shame to lose it again right away.
This messes with my plans though. I think going for Nanjing first is best now. I relocate the units I have been sending to Delhi to Bangalore.
Kill the offending HA.

IBT: Darn! Our HA-killer-Pike got killed by a Cho-Ko-Nu I couldn't see. Another HA comes visiting.

(8)1268AD

Madras: Cat -> Mace
Bangalore: Pike -> Versailles
Lahore: Cat -> LB
I have to upgrade the units on the Marble as that's where the visiting HA is knocking. Warrior to Pike and Archer to LB.
I was unsure here what to chose for the Archer, LB or Crossbow? I'd be interested in hearing reasons for one or the other. I chose LB because it was cheaper and it could be used for city defense of Bombay if an emergency arises.

I switch research off again to refill the coffers.

IBT: HA does not attack (moves to forrest) and Cho-Ko-Nu goes back home.

(9)1274AD

Delhi: Cat -> Pike
Kill HA with Pike from Bombay and move Marble LB to cover.
Whip another Pike in Bombay.

IBT: Huayna demands Drama. I give it to him and he goes from Annoyed to Cautious.

(10)1280AD

Education -> Liberalism, Research is still switched off.

There is an unpromoted attack stack at Nanjing and 2 more Cats available next turn. You'll need them as Nanjing is on a hill so 2 Maces won't do the job.


There are only 2 LBs in Nanjing though.
More units are being produced, but I put Bombay and Bangalore back on Wonder Duty.

Mao seems to be mostly fighting with JC. We do get a HA visiting here and there around Bombay.
Our defenses are stabilised, but not by a lot. Should we get a new SOD from Mao, you need to shuffle troops from E to W. I went for the balanced approach and building a small attack force of our own, but there is enough to fight him off in total. It's just a bit spread out.

I don't know how much of Mao we want. Take Nanjing and then reevaluate the situation? We could maybe get some more up north. Or maybe we should be content with Guangzhou and Nanjing and go defensive until WW gets too bad. Mao and JC are nicely wasting their units on each other. No city has changed hands in my turns. Hatty and Genghis seem to be not getting really involved. Some pillaging at Nanjing is all I saw of them.

Divine Right is still a monopoly tech, so I don't fear for Versailles and Spinal Minaret (yet).
SM in 8 and Versailles in 27. I moved the Engineer from Delhi to Bangalore AFTER I saved and he'd give 1050 out of 1200h towards it, with 98h already invested. Your call if/when to use him. He's still in Delhi in the save!

I think these 10 turns went rather well and overall we are doing ok. We have some defenses up and got one Chinese city with the prospect of aquiring another one by force in the next few turns.

Good Luck Kikinit! Looking forward to seeing the development.

Save:
View attachment 126714

 

[Kikinit]

Things look great Sina. You had a few questions there and I've not got time to answer them right now. I'll re-read and post again later but just needed to say

 

[Kikinit]

I just had time to look at the save. With the SGOTM going on I haven't really had time for this game. But I don't plan on forgetting it. I think with the position we are in now, we should be targetting getting a diplomatic win I think.

You have done very well in this war. I am surprised by the defenses we have now. We are not threatened at all that I can see and can take Nanjing in a few turns. Mao won't have enough to defend against us. About more cities than that... hmmm.. I am thinking that we should take his capital. Maybe it will have an academy and you won't have to feel like you were when you used the scientist on education.

I actually think that your reasoning for that are fine. Academies though can be worth a lot. 2493 beakers over say 100 turns is 25 per turn and we have well over 100 turns left. An academy in a good city can do that easy. But we want liberalism to get a free tech so getting there first is worth quite a bit to us. Either way is fine. We will get another scientist.

I will probably only get to play in few days time so it may go a bit quiet around here but I will play.

 

[Sina]

I'm not sure we can go for his capital. He'll have Cho-Ko-Nus there and lots of other stuff. It would sure be nice to get it though. We should also go for the Taoism Holy City with is just N of Bejing I think.
See what you can do.

Take your time. Maybe somebody will return as well to take some pressure off us.

 

[Kikinit]

Sina, I am going to play my turns this afternoon.

As it's just the two of us and no-one seems to be coming back, I am going to advertise in the SG registration thread to see if we can get a couple more players to come play.

 

[GreyFox]

Need help?

 

[Kikinit]

If your graphics card's up to it YoungFox then the answer is "we sure do!". It's only Sina and I left playing. Atlas*, n0xie and omni_paul have all deserted the boards completely, not just this game.

 

[GreyFox]

I will help whenver I can ...

 

[Kikinit]

Thanks GreyFox. I have got it now. I will play a couple of turns now but I won't be reporting until tonight as I've got to go to the shops this arvo.

 

[Kanga_DU]

Still want/need another? Bear in mind I've only just started a game price level, so I'm not bring experience to the table.

 

[Sina]

Great! We really need some help here.
Atlas said he'll be back 1st of June (holidays), but the others have disappeared.

I'd say we slot you in right after Kikinit. I have a busy week coming up with a lot of uncertainity as to when/if I have the time to play.

 

[Ralph_Jackson]

Also willing to join in if you still need extra players!!


Ralph

 

[Kikinit]

Kanga, no problem with no experience. You just need to make sure that if you are uncertain of some decision, you save the game and come back here and ask. It's a team effort and there's no embarassment for asking questions.

Ralph, you would also be welcome. It's a nice complement to your prince anti-wonder game. Just dont' get mixed up which one you are playing at any time .

Fox. Is your graphics card up to it? If so, then I'll put you in too.

My turnset post will be up soon and I guess next up after that will be whoever wants to post a got it. We can formalise a roster later.

 

[Kikinit]

It's a bit slow warmongering in this game. I'm getting used to huge armies that can roar through the opposition in a few turns. In this lot, I managed to take one city and then took some casualties from not being careful enough at the next.

First up, I turned research back on. It's a bit too important to us in this game as we need to be first or not far behind on all the wonder techs so we can build the wonders fast. Our towns have got amazing capability to build the wonders though with marble and stone and our industrious trait.

I MM'd a little bit in a few cities to emphasize production to get the units out so we can get back to our normal game. Changed Delhi to a catapult and that was it.

On the 1st and 2nd turn, I bombarded Nanjing with Catapults to reduce its defenses and then sacrificed 2 cats. The best I could then get was 58% on a CR2 maceman. And he lost with no damage to the defender. I then had a CR1 maceman at <50% odds. There was only 2 defenders and so far I have lost 2 cats and a CR2 maceman and haven't scratched him... What do I do...

Time to roll the dice. I send in the maceman...

And he wins. I then had a pikemen clean up another longbow. Nanjing is ours!

During my turns, I opened borders with Hatty. She is very friendly with us and is not our neighbour so shouldn't pose a great threat to invading us at the moment. She came asking to swap maps later and I agreed as we know very little that anyone else wouldn't know.

I spent most of my remaining turns diverting a reasonable army over to take out Chengdu. After all the cities finished building this round of units, I put them all back onto building cities. We should take Chengdu and then go for peace with the Chinese.

In 1334AD, The Spiral Minaret was built. One more wonder down. No idea how many more to go.

I sent out 2 macemen a longbow and a catapult as an early force towards Chengdu whilst I was waiting to build up more forces. This was a mistake as I didn't realise how much damage Cho-Ko-Nu's would do to my macemen. I mangaged to salvage only a 0.2/5 wounded catapult from this but the chinese had a few casualties too so it wasn't a total loss.

The main force arrived a bit later and it's shown below. Chengdu is not very well defended and although the force I have assembled is not the best in the world, I would take a turn or 2 to barraged the defenses down to 0 and then sacrifice most of the catapults and take out the city. Immediately upon taking it I would then sue for peace. It will be bloody and we will loose a few troops but the Chinese are looking for peace and this city is worth it as it's a holy city and should have a shrine already built (I hope). I still haven't learnt the graphics enough to know if thats the shrine in the city. Maybe someone with more idea can answer that.

Here's what all our cities are up to.

And here's the current tech situation. We are only behind optics and guilds that we can see. We may be behind on others we can't see but I don't think the AI has had enough time from the last time we checked to get too far ahead. We can easily trade something for optics but not sure if it's worth it.

I need to sit down and go through the techs that are available and where the wonders are. We will be getting liberalism in 2 turns and will definitely be first as no-one else even has paper.

What tech shall we get for free. That's the next million dollar question. And then what tech to research next.

Next up should be whoever wants to post a got it. I will form up a roster later. We've got Sina, Atlas (returning 1st June), Ralph, Kanga and I. Grey is also very welcome but I know he's having graphics card problems so I'll leave it up to him.

Here's the save:

 

[Kikinit]

I've had a look at the techs available for choosing when we get liberalism. We have a choice here to delay liberalism until we can get a better tech as no-one else will get it as long as we keep an eye on who has education. As soon as someone gets education, we can finish liberalism. I think it's worth doing.

The choices for research at the moment are (liberalism), Nationalism, Optics, Guilds, Printing Press and Gunpowder. If we took liberalism now, I'd take Nationalism as it's the most expensive but we've already done 773/3861 of it. I am thinking that we finish Nationalism (8 turns or so) and then take the techs after that... Military Tradition or Constitution. They are both a bit more costly.

So I propose switching straight to Nationalism and when that finishes, finish liberalism at take Constitution.

The next up wonders will be Taj Mahal from Nationalism and then Statue of Liberty from Democracy. This is why I would choose Constitution as it leads to democracy.

By the way, I forgot to say that there is another Great Person due in 2 turns. We already have a great engineer, artist and prophet in the capital. The engineer is being saved for a wonder rush that we feel threatened with and the other 2 are being saved for ??? No idea ???. The artist could be used as a culture bomb if we settle a city on our border.

I am also re-thinking if the force I have at Chengdu has any hope. I looked at the odds and they are pitiful. Maybe best to wait until we can get a few more macemen over there. I'm not sure if we've got enough.

 

[Kikinit]

Just checked the save again. I would put one more turn in Liberalism then change to Nationalism. The AI's are all down paper which leads to education then liberalism and a number are down on philisophy too which is a 2nd pre-req to Liberalism so it's not a big threat and we may as well take a better tech if we can.

We also need a missionary in Karachi to help the borders pop.

That's it for me. I've loaded the save about 4 times now... I'll let the next person play. So who wants to post a got it? Plus I've just spammed 4 messages in a row so I better let someone else post something first.