Natural Wonder Elimination Thread

[TCBB]

Mount Vesuvius [0] ELIMINATED. No one seems to be defending it, so I assume I’m fine finishing Vesuvius off. Too high-risk; the population loss is simply too devastating whenever it erupts.

Giant's Causeway [13] (12+1) I can see the arguments for Giant’s Causeway being a one-hit wonder that’s only relevant for domination, but nevertheless I think it should outlast several other candidates (eg. Pantanal, Galápagos, Tsingy, Great Barrier Reef, maybe Fountain of Youth). I consider it similar to Yerevan; only really applicable for one victory type, but boy does it help that victory type. Find this wonder early, and you can steamroll your neighbour with only archers and warriors à la Rough Rider Teddy.

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [12]
Galápagos Islands [10]
Giant's Causeway [13] (12+1)
Great Barrier Reef [5]
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [20]
Matterhorn [18]
Mount Kilimanjaro [18]
Mount Roraima [23]
Mount Vesuvius [0] ELIMINATED.
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [11]
Piopiotahi [13]
Torres del Paine [23]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [13]
Yosemite [14]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[JJOne]

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [12]
Galápagos Islands [10]
Giant's Causeway [13]
Great Barrier Reef [5]
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [20]
Matterhorn [15] (18-3) In most of the cases it's between other mountains. And you'll get 1-2 of those culture tiles, and you'll want to put a campus or a holy site on top anyway. And I don't believe anyone does that mountain pilgrimage for all military units.
Mount Kilimanjaro [18]
Mount Roraima [23]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [12] (11+1) 8 culture... for free. Useful for your first or for your tenth city.
Piopiotahi [13]
Torres del Paine [23]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [13]
Yosemite [14]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[CrabHelmet]

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [12]
Galápagos Islands [10]
Giant's Causeway [13]
Great Barrier Reef [5]
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [20]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [18]
Mount Roraima [20]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [12]
Piopiotahi [14]
Torres del Paine [23]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [13]
Yosemite [14]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

I don't feel I can downvote the Fountain of Youth twice and it has started getting some attention now, so I'm going to be controversial and downvote Mount Roraima. Almost everything else here now provides vital Culture (Eyajfjalaksaskaleoalkl, Ha Long Bay, Matterhorn, Paititi, Pantanal, Piopiotahi, Tsingy de Bemaraha), or has a unique and powerful bonus (Giant's Causeway, Ik-Kil, Zhangye Danxia, Pamukkale), or just has beefy yields (Torres del Paine, Kilimanjaro). The exceptions are: the Fountain of Youth, the Galapagos Islands, Great Barrier Reef, Mount Roraima and Yosemite. Fittingly, most of those have started to drift towards the bottom of this list at this point, and it's plain to see why: Faith is useful for getting a Pantheon but if you discover these Wonders after the first 15 turns or so, you'll often be too late even when settling onto them to for them to help lots for the Pantheon, and if you already have your Pantheon, Faith is not that valuable. Science is... good, yes, but Science is more accessible than Culture early on and Science breakpoints are often less sharp. I will concede Mount Roraima is the best of these 5 Wonders I've highlighted - the effect is felt on adjacent tiles so you don't necessarily have to give up on Production (although still depends on what sort of tiles are adjacent, I have had Mount Roraima in more or less complete Grassland...), however, that's being the best of (IMO) the weakest 5 Wonders still going. I certainly don't think Roraima deserved to be in joint 2nd place, its previous position, so have decided to draw attention to it.

I am however repeating my vote on Piopiotahi; sorry, it's just not defensible how far it has drifted down. +12 Culture is a well-placed Colosseum. It's an incredible wonder, the fact it was more or less level with the Fountain of Youth is just strange.

 

[monikernemo]

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [12]
Galápagos Islands [10]
Giant's Causeway [13]
Great Barrier Reef [5]
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [20]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [18]
Mount Roraima [20]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13] (12 + 1) Though unimprovable, pantanal gives good adj to holy sites and yields are pretty relevant for the course of the game.
Of course takes fewer population point to work all 8 culture compared to candidates like piopiotahi.
Piopiotahi [14]
Torres del Paine [20] (23 - 3)
More of a pre-emptive downvote. Effectiveness of Torres is spawn-dependent. In particular, Torres in the tundra (and it can spawn in the tundra) only makes tundra tiles as good as grassland, and you are better off settling else where.
Most desirable Torres spawn is probably plains/grassland hills, which admittedly, requires some RNG.
Tsingy de Bemaraha [13]
Yosemite [14]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[lotrmith]

I'm doubling down on @CrabHelmet votes. Culture is King. Science is overrated as a tile yield. You can reliably spam high adjacency campuses early. You can't reliably spam high adjacency Theater Squares, early or otherwise. Having science on a tile yield doesn't save you from prioritizing campuses. Having Culture as a yield saves you from having to prioritize monuments.



Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [12]
Galápagos Islands [10]
Giant's Causeway [13]
Great Barrier Reef [5]
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [20]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [18]
Mount Roraima [17]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [20]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [13]
Yosemite [14]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[Drivingrevilo]

Mount Roraima [18] (17+1) I do not disagree with upvoting Piopiotahi, but I am very sceptical of this anti-Roraima trend. I fail to see how you can argue that 16 science and 16 faith are not A-tier yields. Even if you're not doing a science victory, having extra science is always powerful – simply because so many useful/important bonuses are tied to the tech tree (e.g. extra production, extra combat strength, extra tourism, extra movement, extra strategic resources....), not to mention the three best wonders in the game as voted for by this very forum (Pyramids, Kilwa, Forbidden City).* The science provided by Roraima, spread out over two or three strategically located cities, is almost enough to make up for no campuses for two eras when you're playing a religious or tourism game. And the faith can also be enough to make a monumentality golden age worthwhile when you're playing a science game. I don't dispute the power of early culture, but that doesn't mean we throw the baby out with the bathwater and dismiss Mt Roraima which, in my eyes, is clearly a top-tier wonder.

Tsingy de Bemaraha [10] (13-3) The yields are fine, good even, but this wonder suffers severely in my eyes because it always seems to spawn in tundra (an odd fact, given that in real life it's found on the tropical / temperate island of Madagascar). This means you often have to go out of your way to settle it, and your city will struggle to reach the six population necessary to even work the six tiles.

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [12]
Galápagos Islands [10]
Giant's Causeway [13]
Great Barrier Reef [5]
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [20]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [18]
Mount Roraima [18] (17+1)
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [20]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [10] (13-3)
Yosemite [14]
Zhangye Danxia [23]


* to continue this line of argument. In order, the top ten wonders were; Pyramids, Kilwa Kisiwani, Forbidden City, Oracle, Mausoleum, Big Ben, Colosseum, Potala Palace, Temple of Artemis, Eiffel Tower. Of those ten wonders, seven are found on the tech tree; and moreover, four of those seven are found early on in the tech tree. Even more reason why Roraima fits the meta.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

Fountain of Youth [13] 12+1
Galápagos Islands [7] 10-3

I love Fountain of Youth, if I start next to it that's great as it will help me get that Pantheon super quick. If not it's still a good tile to work once I've let my city grow and it grants a healing bonus to your units.

The Galápagos Islands always seem to spawn in an awkward spot for me, nice yields but can be tough to make use of them.

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [13]
Galápagos Islands [7]
Giant's Causeway [13]
Great Barrier Reef [5]
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [20]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [18]
Mount Roraima [18]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [20]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [10]
Yosemite [14]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[JhGf_123]

Galápagos Islands [4] (7-3) upvoted it earlier, but I agree the time has come. Some games you’ll have a lovely turtle or crab tile spawn next to the wonder, making it worthwhile to found a city; but other games there’ll be nothing but plain coast next to it which you can’t really work until after you’ve got lighthouse & shipyards up.

Great Barrier Reef [6] (5+1) on the other hand, the density of the food yields means it’s always worth founding a city next to Great Barrier Reef – even if the total science it gives pales beneath what Galápagos can (theoretically) provide.

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [13]
Galápagos Islands [4] (7-3)
Giant's Causeway [13]
Great Barrier Reef [6] (5+1)
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [20]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [18]
Mount Roraima [18]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [20]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [10]
Yosemite [14]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[hhhhhh]

Haven't vote for a while...

Tsingy de Bemaraha [11] (10 + 1) I've never seen it appear in tundra land, always with good tiles, plain hills, grassland hills woods etc. so I give it an upvote.
Great Barrier Reef [3] (6-3) Depend on where you find it, the city near it will certainly have a lot of food, but is likely lack of production.

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [13]
Galápagos Islands [4]
Giant's Causeway [13]
Great Barrier Reef [3]
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [20]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [18]
Mount Roraima [18]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [20]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [10]
Yosemite [14]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[xaiviax]

I want every wonder left on this list in my empire. And other than the broken lost city, there is less of a difference between the wonders than the difference in how a player adapts to and utilizes said wonders. Play the map. Convert one resource in to another...

For today's vote, the volcano in Tanzania provides 12 food, additional volcano benefits, both wanted and unwanted. The national park in the Sierra Nevada provides 10 food, 10 gold, and 10 science. I prefer the latter.

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [13]
Galápagos Islands [4]
Giant's Causeway [13]
Great Barrier Reef [3]
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [20]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [15] (18-3)
Mount Roraima [18]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [20]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [11]
Yosemite [15] (14+1)
Zhangye Danxia [23]


Fixed Tsingy total.

 

[JJOne]

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [13]
Galápagos Islands [4]
Giant's Causeway [13]
Great Barrier Reef [3]
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [17](20-3) It really depends on how early you can settle it. If you find it early enough: you can try and get Colosseum with it, or you can put your gov Plaza there and get some half good adiacencies for your other districts. If you find it late, well, it is sort of useless (you won't have the production in late cities to compete with the early cities in building wonders, even with the boost from this)
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [15]
Mount Roraima [18]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [21] (20+1) Getting it surrounded by a few hills, or getting it near a volcano, the yields go through the roof.
Tsingy de Bemaraha [11]
Yosemite [15]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[enKage]

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [13]
Galápagos Islands [4]
Giant's Causeway [10]
Great Barrier Reef [3]
Hạ Long Bay [16]
Ik-Kil [18]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [15]
Mount Roraima [18]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [21]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [11]
Yosemite [15]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

Ik-Kil
I hate this wonder. It is usually hidden between rainforest and hils, so you can have it nearby and even not discover it.
But it is strong. Crazy strong. Simply because some wonders are OP.
+1

Giant's Causeway -3
I am not a big fan of sendig units in a weird way to the frontline, just to get this bonus

 

[monikernemo]

Tsingy de Bemaraha [11] (10 + 1) I've never seen it appear in tundra land, always with good tiles, plain hills, grassland hills woods etc. so I give it an upvote.

In my experience, Tsingy always spawn with few hills for instance, my screenshot in GOTM93.
hills.
At most two hills, (one of which is below the cattle where the stone church is, and i cant remb whether the EC is placed on a hill, but for benefit of doubt, say it is indeed a plains hill).


Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [13]
Galápagos Islands [4]
Giant's Causeway [10]
Great Barrier Reef [3]
Hạ Long Bay [13] (16 - 3)
I believe Ha Long Bay and GBB shouldn't be too far apart, though HLB trumps GBB slightly as it gives culture and production.
But I have a hard time downvoting coastal wonders because
Coastal wonders have the potential to hit highest yield density late game, probably second only to volcanic wonders but that is dependent on suz-ing Auckland, and building shipyards and seaports, and Mausoleum. Coastal wonder tiles already have a somewhat decent base yield of 4 to 5 only to be accentuated by these improvements.

I think Auckland is the biggest swing factor here. In fact if auckland is in the game, then I think coastal wonders are very viable. So I am not entirely sure if all of them should rated so lowly hmm.

Ik-Kil [18]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [15]
Mount Roraima [19] (18 + 1)
While culture is indeed important early to hit key civics, faith is key for early expansion and Roraima gives plenty of faith which is equally crucial early game if one wants to use monumentality GA.
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [21]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [11]
Yosemite [15]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[Amrunril]

Hạ Long Bay (13-3=10) This provides two tiles slightly better than a jade or amber mine. That's nice to have but not top tier, and its coastal placement makes it weaker for holy sites and national parks than other passable wonders.
Mount Roraima (19+1=10) +1science/+1faith to seven tiles, +2/+2 to three and +3/+3 to one. I think yields like that pretty much speak for themselves.

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [13]
Galápagos Islands [4]
Giant's Causeway [10]
Great Barrier Reef [3]
Hạ Long Bay [10]
Ik-Kil [18]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [15]
Mount Roraima [20]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [21]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [11]
Yosemite [15]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[lotrmith]

Hạ Long Bay (13-3=10) This provides two tiles slightly better than a jade or amber mine. That's nice to have but not top tier, and its coastal placement makes it weaker for holy sites and national parks than other passable wonders.

I would work a 3 food, 1 prod, 1 culture tile all game, every game, as Ha Long Bay tiles are.

I would hardly work a 1 food, 1 gold, 2 science tile, as the Galapogos tiles too often are.



Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [13]
Galápagos Islands [1]
Giant's Causeway [10]
Great Barrier Reef [3]
Hạ Long Bay [11]
Ik-Kil [18]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [15]
Mount Roraima [20]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [13]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [21]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [11]
Yosemite [15]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[xaiviax]

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [13]
Galápagos Islands [1]
Giant's Causeway [10]
Great Barrier Reef [3]
Hạ Long Bay [11]
Ik-Kil [18]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [15]
Mount Roraima [20]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [10] (13-3) This 8 culture comes at the cost of being on 4 unimprovable tiles that effectively provide nothing else. While good for holy sites, other than that, I will reiterate that I would rather have 4 actual marsh tiles.
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [21]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [12] (11+1) where one cannot walk barefoot provides 6 extra culture to tiles which can be improved, along with 6 extra science.
Yosemite [15]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[hhhhhh]

I hate this wonder. It is usually hidden between rainforest and hils, so you can have it nearby and even not discover it.

That's why you need to check tile appeal when you scout around.

In my experience, Tsingy always spawn with few hills for instance, my screenshot in GOTM93.
hills. At most two hills, (one of which is below the cattle where the stone church is, and i cant remb whether the EC is placed on a hill, but for benefit of doubt, say it is indeed a plains hill).

How are two hills "few"? I played 6oTM93 too and I'm pretty satisfied with two hills and a cattle next to Tsingy.

Ik-Kil [19] (18+1) it seems like some people think you have to place district next to Ik-Kil, but it's more about using it to build wonders (maybe one early HS). It's always in deep forest and that provide abundant chops. Wonders are expensive so the benefits are huge.

Fountain of Youth [10] (13-3) Not bad but will lose its appeal soon in non-military games.

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [10]
Galápagos Islands [1]
Giant's Causeway [10]
Great Barrier Reef [3]
Hạ Long Bay [11]
Ik-Kil [19]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [15]
Mount Roraima [20]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [10]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [21]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [12]
Yosemite [15]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[TCBB]

Galápagos Islands [ELIMINATED] Because I agree with a previous voter that it’s ever-so-slightly-worse than Great Barrier. More science overall, but less chance of actually working all the science if the tiles are rubbish.

Mount Roraima [21] (20+1) I’m glad Mt. Roraima is back from a brief bump. No other wonder provides as many yields in the game - that surely makes it top 5 minimum. I’ve always been hugely chuffed to see it early doors.

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [10]
Galápagos Islands [ELIMINATED]
Giant's Causeway [10]
Great Barrier Reef [3]
Hạ Long Bay [11]
Ik-Kil [19]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [15]
Mount Roraima [21] (20+1)
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [10]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [21]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [12]
Yosemite [15]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[JhGf_123]

Great Barrier Reef [0] ELIMINATED. and now Great Barrier. It’s fine; absolutely worth having, especially early, but nothing remarkable. (Also, I’ve never understood why Great Barrier is only two tiles. Like, it’s the largest natural wonder in real life, so big you can literally see it from space – so why only two tiles large?? It should be 4 tiles minimum, and then it would go from ‘fine’ to ‘great’ and be geographically accurate)

Ik-Kil [20] (19+1). someone mentioned that it’s always surrounded by jungle, but surely this is a great thing? Magnus chop that jungle to enlarge your city and get out those wonders even quicker, on top of the +50% you’re already receiving – ideal.

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [10]
Giant's Causeway [10]
Great Barrier Reef [0] ELIMINATED
Hạ Long Bay [11]
Ik-Kil [20] (19+1)
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [15]
Mount Roraima [21]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [10]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [21]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [12]
Yosemite [15]
Zhangye Danxia [23]

 

[lotrmith]

Unpopular opinion? Zhangye is overrated. I'd rather have stronger base yields from something like Torres or Kilimanjaro, or better yet Culture or even faith/science for a stronger early game. Zhangye is free General and Merchant points you don't have to work for, and the General you will earn is worthwhile if you plan to be aggressive or find yourself needing a strong defense, but the Merchant points are by and large useless until you actual plop down a commercial hub. I'll take yields.

Yields like Tsingy's culture and faith.

Eyjafjallajökull [20]
Fountain of Youth [10]
Giant's Causeway [10]
Hạ Long Bay [11]
Ik-Kil [20]
Matterhorn [15]
Mount Kilimanjaro [15]
Mount Roraima [21]
Païtiti [27]
Pamukkale [20]
Pantanal [10]
Piopiotahi [15]
Torres del Paine [21]
Tsingy de Bemaraha [13]
Yosemite [15]
Zhangye Danxia [20]