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Natural Wonder Elimination Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by hhhhhh, Aug 28, 2020.

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  1. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2020
    Messages:
    383
    Matterhorn should be [19]. Use this for further voting since we are on a new page:


    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [14]
    Giant's Causeway [14]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [18]
    Ik-Kil [19]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [8]
    Matterhorn [19]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [17]
    Païtiti [24]
    Pamukkale [18]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Sahara el Beyda [5]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [3]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [22]
     
    CoconutTank likes this.
  2. linaker

    linaker Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    47
    Hạ Long Bay: -3 This is good if you are able to work it in the early game, but 2 tiles of 3F, 1P, 1C plus a combat bonus if you happen to be attacked there is hardly game changing. One tile of the Pantanal provides as much culture and one of the chocolate hills as much production. They are also much more likely to offer good spots for Holy Sites. The extra food might be useful if it spawns near a desert containing Uluru which has just been eliminated, but natural wonders don't appear that close together.

    Galapagos Islands: +1 It doesn't make sense that this is currently 4 points behind Ha Long Bay.

    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15] (!4 +1)
    Giant's Causeway [14]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [15] (18 - 3)
    Ik-Kil [19]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [8]
    Matterhorn [19]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [17]
    Païtiti [24]
    Pamukkale [18]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Sahara el Beyda [5]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [3]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [22]
     
  3. Roblord

    Roblord Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2004
    Messages:
    64
    Location:
    Detroit, MI
    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15]
    Giant's Causeway [14]
    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [15]
    Ik-Kil [20] (19+1)
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [8]
    Matterhorn [19]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [17]
    Païtiti [24]
    Pamukkale [18]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Sahara el Beyda [2] (5-3)
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [3]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [22]

    Downvote: Sahara el Beyda: The yields aren't awful, but the lack of food basically means most of those tiles either won't be worked for a long time or won't be worked period. I had this in a recent game and it just wasn't worth the effort for the return.

    Upvote: Ik-Kil: If this spawns near you, you're likely in for a very good game. The cost reduction makes getting infrastructure up a snap. Not much downside to this one.
     
  4. monikernemo

    monikernemo Warlord

    Joined:
    May 9, 2020
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    Male
    But one also has to devote 6 population to get the full 6S + 6C, which can be less than relevant compared to other wonders when cities are around that size.

    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [18]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15]
    Giant's Causeway [15] (14 + 1)
    +5 negates any combat bonus a deity AI might have. By no means are these bonuses insignificant. If you place an encampment near GC then all your units spawned automatically receives +5 CS.

    Great Barrier Reef [14]
    Hạ Long Bay [15]
    Ik-Kil [20]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5] (8 - 5) +1 F + 1 P is nice early, but dwindles off quickly...

    Matterhorn [19]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [17]
    Païtiti [24]
    Pamukkale [18]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Sahara el Beyda [2]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [3]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [22]
     
  5. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,193
    Great Barrier Reef (14-3=11) This gives nice yields on a couple tiles, but its total yield bonuses are lower than even the single tile adjacency-based wonders, and it's difficult to get any national park or holy site bonuses out of.

    Eyjafjallajökull (18+1=19) I'm still not sure how to rate the volcanic effects, but unlike Kilimanjaro or Vesuvius, this would rate highly on base yields alone.

    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [19]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [15]
    Ik-Kil [20]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [19]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [17]
    Païtiti [24]
    Pamukkale [18]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Sahara el Beyda [2]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [3]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [22]
     
  6. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Warlord

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    Mount Vesuvius [14] (17-3) Similar to above but a downvote. From experience, I now avoid Vesuvius whenever I find it nearby. The yields look great, until you realise that every time Vesuvius erupts your city gets pommeled – meaning your population will remain stuck somewhere around 3 or 4 and, as a result, you can’t even work all the good tiles or make something useful out of the city. A trap.

    Pamukkale [19] (18+1) Undervalued, and it deserves to sneak into A tier. Basically, upon finding this you know you have two guaranteed +3 (or higher) campuses, commercial hubs, or theatre squares – yields that can be doubled with the right policy card, and increased even further with eg. rationalism. It’s so flexible for whatever victory type you want. I’ve always found it extremely helpful whenever I stumble across it.


    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [19]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [15]
    Ik-Kil [20]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [19]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [14] (17-3)
    Païtiti [24]
    Pamukkale [19] (18+1)
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Sahara el Beyda [2]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [3]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [22]
     
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  7. Dotsworthy

    Dotsworthy Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2019
    Messages:
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    Gender:
    Male
    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [19]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [15]
    Ik-Kil [20]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [19]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [11] 14-3. Downvoted because it very often spawns in the middle of a mountain range or on the coast wasting it's tiles. Also in my last apocalypse game never erupted. Mount Kilimanjaro is superior.
    Païtiti [24]
    Pamukkale [19]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Sahara el Beyda [2]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [3]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23] 22+1. A great civ to settle next to. Immediately guarantees Boudicca which cam save on building units, along with at least 2 great merchants before the AI build their commercial hub. A really good functional wonder for the early game.
     
  8. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Gibraltar
    Only if you manage to get it all in your empire, it always seems to spawn in the space between 3 empires in my games!

    I agree - the gap should be much bigger :)

    Hạ Long Bay [16] 15+1
    Galápagos Islands [12] 15-3

    These are two strong wonders but the Islands need a bit more work for the affected tiles to be productive in your empire whereas with the Bay providing 3 food you can work them straight away, growing your city whilst also generating production and culture.


    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [19]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [20]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [19]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [11]
    Païtiti [24]
    Pamukkale [19]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Sahara el Beyda [2]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [3]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]
     
  9. xaiviax

    xaiviax Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Magma

    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [19]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [20]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [19]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [8] (11-3) It's a mistake from me that this is my first down vote for this. The population devastation this wonder will bestow upon you...
    Païtiti [24]
    Pamukkale [20] (19+1) Not a volcano, all of which are too highly rated on this list currently. +4 campuses and happy thoughts.
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Sahara el Beyda [2]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [3]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]
     
  10. JJOne

    JJOne Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2011
    Messages:
    377
    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [19]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [20]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [16] (19-3) Fixing the score, since I don't think this is better than that irish wonder.
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [9] (8+1) - 2 or 3 cities, 3 tiles away, wouldn't that mean no pop loss, and you still get to work those good tiles?
    Païtiti [24]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Sahara el Beyda [2]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [3]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]
     
  11. TCBB

    TCBB Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Messages:
    146
    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [20] (19+1) Contrary to Vesuvius, I’ve had some pretty decent spawns near this fella where the yields more than make up for any damage done. Also, it doesn’t kill population nearly as often as Vesuvius: check out the percentage chances provided on the CivFandom page (linked at bottom*) to support this. All in all, makes tundra eminently habitable.
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [20]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [16]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [9] @JJOne, my understanding is this: if a city owns a tile hit by a volcano, then it loses population – even if the city-centre itself was out of range of the blast. Someone can correct me if that’s wrong; however, it doesn’t change the basic point that Vesuvius = a lot of dead civilians.
    Païtiti [24]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Sahara el Beyda [2] ELIMINATED. It was between this or Ubsunur. Very close, but I think Ubsunur has marginally more utility because, in my games at least, I take tundra pantheon more often than desert one. But Ubsunur is still pretty awful.
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [3]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]

    *https://civilization.fandom.com/wiki/Volcano_(Civ6)
     
    cylenalag and hhhhhh like this.
  12. bengalryan9

    bengalryan9 King

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    739
    Gender:
    Male
    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [20]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [16]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [9]
    Païtiti [25] (24+1) This already gives really good yields... and then you build Petra and they're even better.
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Ubsunur Hollow [eliminated] (3-3) I think we were wrong to eliminate the desert wonders before Ubsunur. It's way easier to build Petra than it is St. Peter's (because the AI will actually try for St. Peter's, it's more of a coin flip in my experience), which means it's way easier to improve the yields of Sahara el Beyda than it is to improve the yields of Ubsunur.
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]
     
  13. cylenalag

    cylenalag Chieftain

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    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Mount Vesuvius [6] (9-3): I have a very personal grudge against this horrible natural wonder. I had a city two tiles away and it would explode regularly, capping the city to 5 pop at best. While it may offer very nice yields, the constant population loss makes it not worth it. Give me Kilimanjaro or Eyjafjallajökull over it any day.

    Ik-Kil [21] (20+1): Now for my upvote! I love this natural wonder. +50% wonder and district production adjacent to it is just fantastic. It’s very fun to crowd it with wonders and theater squares. And it generally comes surrounded with rainforest chops to help make districts and wonders go up even faster. Fresh water is just a cherry on top.



    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [15]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [21]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [16]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [6]
    Païtiti [25]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]
     
  14. linaker

    linaker Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    47

    Galapogos Islands: These sometimes appear adjacent to land or sea resources making those tile immediately workable. Ha Long Bay can spawn off the coast so you have to wait or buy the tiles to work them. In any case, I would rather do a bit more work and gain a reward of 20 Science, than be content with a wonder that offers the equivalent of 2 farms, 2 mines and a monument. I have included a screenshot of how they appear in my current game for illustration.

    Matterhorn: Often is surrounded by mountains, so adds only a couple of culture. The movement and combat bonus are not that impactful to peaceful players except perhaps somewhat with exploring and barbarians.


    2020-09-05 (2).png


    Chocolate Hills [7]
    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [16] (15 + 1)
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [21]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [13] (16 - 3)
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [6]
    Païtiti [25]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]
     
    Drivingrevilo likes this.
  15. xaiviax

    xaiviax Chieftain Supporter

    Joined:
    May 21, 2013
    Messages:
    85
    Just noticed Noble Zarkon's Galápagos vote wasn't subtracted from total, should now be at 13.
     
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  16. monikernemo

    monikernemo Warlord

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    Gender:
    Male
    Chocolate Hills [4] (7-3) nothing to really scream about since it gives the same yields as iron mine which unlocks really early.
    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [15]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [21]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [14] (13+1) The extra movement is very nice for early scouting.
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [6]
    Païtiti [25]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]
     
  17. Amrunril

    Amrunril Emperor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,193
    I'll focus on land combat wonders this time. An extra movement point in hills (Matterhorn: 14+1=15) can often mean making an attack when you otherwise couldn't have or getting a wounded unit out of the way of an enemy attack. This sort of control over the battlefield can accomplish far more than a +5 strength bonus (Giant's Causeway: 15-3=12).

    Chocolate Hills [4]
    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [12]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [21]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [15]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [17]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [6]
    Païtiti [25]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]
     
  18. Drivingrevilo

    Drivingrevilo Warlord

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2020
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    Chocolate Hills [1] (4-3) This and Pantanal are the last of the ‘four-tile-wonders-that-sorta-suck-except-for-activating-Darwin’ wonders. Pantanal at least allows you to keep growing (though working it comes with the downside of no production). Chocolate Hills falls at the growth hurdle – crippling in the early game.

    Mount Kilimanjaro [18] (17+1) Lots of talk about volcanos at the moment, and I think Kilimanjaro has fallen too low. High food tiles are incredibly valuable early on, and Kilimanjaro is the king of high food. Diminishing returns as the game goes on, but by that point it’s already served it’s purpose: getting you very quickly to population 4 and then 7 to construct those extra districts. I always, always make a point of settling nearby when I see it; the same can’t be same for most wonders remaining.


    Chocolate Hills [1] (4-3)

    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [13]
    Giant's Causeway [12]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [21]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [15]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [18] (17+1)
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [6]
    Païtiti [25]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]
     
    ShimmerGloom likes this.
  19. lotrmith

    lotrmith King

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    716
    The Galapogos upvote with Matterhorn downvote makes no sense. Sometimes the islands are immediately workable and the Matterhorn ones might be somewhat covered by unworkable mountains? The exact opposite is true just as often: Sometimes not all of the island tiles are workable, while all of the Matterhorn ones are. So judging by strength, Matterhorn kicks the pants off of Galapogos.

    ((The supplied screenshot would take about 100 turns for two cities to grow enough to be able to work all the Galapogos tiles, and have next to nothing for production.))

    Chocolate Hills [1]
    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [10]
    Giant's Causeway [12]
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [21]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [16]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [18]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [6]
    Païtiti [25]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  20. JhGf_123

    JhGf_123 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2020
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    65
    Giant's Causeway [13] (12+1) Regular reminder that some people who play the game do find it hard. The bonus provided by Giant’s Causeway has often been the difference for me between early survival and early destruction. And it’s also helps a non-pro player like myself grind through mid-game walled cities. Very few wonders have this kind of universal effect; you might not need it to win domination, but it sure helps me do so.

    Chocolate Hills [ELIMINATED] Fairly uncontroversial vote; just an all-round underwhelming wonder.

    Chocolate Hills [ELIMINATED]
    Eyjafjallajökull [20]
    Fountain of Youth [19]
    Galápagos Islands [10]
    Giant's Causeway [13] (12+1)
    Great Barrier Reef [11]
    Hạ Long Bay [16]
    Ik-Kil [21]
    Lysefjord [4]
    Mato Tipila [5]
    Matterhorn [16]
    Mount Kilimanjaro [18]
    Mount Roraima [22]
    Mount Vesuvius [6]
    Païtiti [25]
    Pamukkale [20]
    Pantanal [17]
    Piopiotahi [15]
    Torres del Paine [21]
    Tsingy de Bemaraha [15]
    Yosemite [19]
    Zhangye Danxia [23]
     
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