Naval power -- again?

[jkp1187]

I don't think this question has been answered (to my satisfaction, anyway): is naval power useful/effective in blockading ports and power projection? Or is it good for little more than a coast guard to protect sea improvements?

 

[Fredric Drum]

Only way to know is to wait and play the game. Anything posted below this line will be pure speculation.

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[Aussie_Lurker]

Yep, this is one which I have been very keen to hear back on from beta-testers, particularly the ability to blockade coastal cities-and thus denying them trade. This, combined with the apparently improved use of navies by the AI AND the pillaging of naval improvements (along with the fact that ships are vulnerable when in port) will all help to make naval combat MUCH more important. Another essential is improved movement rates-if only along the coasts (at least in the earliest game).

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Dearmad]

The silence hurts...

 

[aahz_capone]

Perhaps the idea of pirating will be more useful in this game. civ3 had the very cute idea of having a privateer which was unflagged and could do stuff without creating war, but it was too weak to amount to much. does civ4 have anything like that? any non-flagged units at all?

 

[JakeCourtney]

I think so.

 

[GangsterOctopus]

I think not.

 

[Mondo_]

I hope so....

 

[JakeCourtney]

I'll mod the ****er in.

 

[jkp1187]

Yep, this is one which I have been very keen to hear back on from beta-testers, particularly the ability to blockade coastal cities-and thus denying them trade. This, combined with the apparently improved use of navies by the AI AND the pillaging of naval improvements (along with the fact that ships are vulnerable when in port) will all help to make naval combat MUCH more important. Another essential is improved movement rates-if only along the coasts (at least in the earliest game).

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Yeah, I saw you asked the question on Apolyton and there were an equal number of useless answers. I was a little afraid that one of the playtesters there (was it Solver?) admitted that it hadn't occured to him to use navies for blockades.

 

[Alistic]

You would like HOI2. Boats in that game do that. Personally I hope that doesent move into civ. I am really excited that there is resources to defend in the water though that is going to open up some great strats.

That lakes map they have sounds like its going to be a really fun map. Man I just can't wait for Wednesday.

 

[jkp1187]

HOI2? What is?

 

[Grimshok]

HOI2, Hearts of Iron II... its... hrmm... kinda like RISK on Steroids! Well, HOI was like that, HOI2 is even BETTER!

Its created in Switzerland correction: SWEDEN! (I think), and not very well known in the US, but an EXCELLENT game, and highly rated. Even tho I am a nobody to you, I would HIGHLY recommend it to EVERY turn-based strategy gamer for their library! Here's the Wiki on it: Wikipedia:Hearts of Iron 2.


Hearts of Iron 2 Homepage
There IS a free DEMO available, get it from their Homepage, or here's a quick link to the FilePlanet HOI2 Demo download Page.


They also have a HUGE modding community(communities): I would recommend StonyRoad.de(in English), and perhaps CORE, (which seems to be currently not working ), but all these are available from the official forums.

You can play any country in the world, there is technology advancement, terrain effects, leadership bonuses, supply lines, weather... bah! You can micromanage as much as you'd like, or not. Can't say enough good things about that game.

 

[Rince]

HOI2, Hearts of Iron II... its... hrmm... kinda like RISK on Steroids! Well, HOI was like that, HOI2 is even BETTER!

Its created in Switzerland (I think), and not very well known in the US, but an EXCELLENT game, and highly rated.

It's not from Switzerland but from a scandinavian country. Maybe from Sweden. That would explain your mixup .

I agree that it is a good game but with a steep learning curve and quite unattractive interface.

Rince

 

[vorius]

Another vote for HoI2! I was fortunate enough to be a beta tester for that game for about 8 months prior to it's release. Very great community to work with. The game is right up there next to Civ in terms of addiction and fun-factor. It's alot more complex though- if you think Civ is at all complicated then HoI2 might be a bit too much...

BTW The developers are from Stockholme, Sweden - not Switzerland

 

[Grimshok]

Maybe from Sweden.

BTW The developers are from Stockholme, Sweden - not Switzerland

Ok, ok!!! ... Sheesh! I actually MEANT Sweden!
Did I say Switzerland? I meant SWEDEN!


Hey, is there a Strikeout Font ability?

 

[THARN]

LOL...

going to the demo page...thanks for the link.

 

[Spatzimaus]

civ3 had the very cute idea of having a privateer which was unflagged and could do stuff without creating war, but it was too weak to amount to much.

Not to get TOO far off-topic, but this was one of the first things I modded. Civ3 introduced this great mechanic for low-level warfare, and then never used it for anything beyond a naval vessel so weak as to be worthless.

Basically, what I did was this:
> Create the "Shipbuilding" tech that depends on Invention and is a prereq for Astronomy.
> Rename "Privateer" to "Pirate", change the graphics to a smaller vessel, and put it at Shipbuilding as a 2/1/whatever unit (remove gunpowder resource). This became the Barbarian naval unit as well, making them MUCH more dangerous.
> Created a "Shipyard" at Shipbuilding, which did the veteran/upgrading thing for naval vessels, taking that away from the Docks.
> At Magnetism, add a new "Privateer" unit: 3/2/whatever+2, with bombard 2. Yes, an unaffiliated naval vessel that could bombard coastal enemy tiles without starting a war, and 3 attack made it a threat even to Transports.

Also, in my mod the Guerilla (and its custom modern upgrade, the Freedom Fighter) has the Hidden Nationality ability, too. It's nice being able to screw up an enemy without a declared war, even if the unit's too weak to actually take a city.

Anyway, to the original topic: I also hope they really make naval power matter in Civ4. In Civ3 I hardly ever saw the need to make naval combat vessels; transports would carry troops and then hide in port, and if I wanted bombardment I'd either use artillery or wait for bombers. Ships were just so SLOW, and speeding them up would just make it that much more unlikely you'd ever have a ship-on-ship battle.

 

[Wheelock]

Naval power in CivIII didn't make any sense. A destroyer should not have an attack equal to a battleship's defense. A galley should not have an attack equal to that of a galleon. There should have been a more dramatic scaling of ship power between the ages (i.e. galley far weaker than galleon, galleon significantly weaker than modern frigate, etc.)

 

[Zhahz]

Civ is so abstracted and large scale that there's not much point in being able to attack anonymously with military units because the espionage model facilitates that kind of "warfare."

Sid has another game out that focuses on this stuff if you're that much into it.

I thought the Civ3 implementation of privateers is pretty good. It adds some fun and flavor without being totally unbalanced or exploitive (because being able to openly attack someone anonymously with NO chance of discovery in a game is pure cheese).

The unit itself is representative of real life and most reflects a time when something like state sponsored piracy *might* actually be possible - even though I seriously doubt many civ games reflect the exact abnormal circumstances that existed when heavy/serious state sponsored piracy occurred.

Beyond that, barbarian ships represent "neutral" pirates even if they're usually pathetic and weak (beef em up if you want to suffer).