Navigable Rivers

[johny smith]

I probably am just dreaming here. One big thing I always wanted was navigable rivers. I really would like to see small boats being able to use them. I would prefer a middle range of water in between like back in Civ 3. So having 3 types of sea terrain. Shallow, Mid, and Deep. Then as well using the rivers.

I know the issue of the art for units sitting on the river, but I am suggesting that by altering the art of certain units for rivers it could possibly be made to look ok. I would really like to have a beginning period where rivers and shallow water can only be used. It would be a logical progression in a prehistory period.

Anyway just thought I would see if I just get a thumbs down or not.

 

[rightfuture]

I vote yes. Waiting for riverboats, canoes, and barges. Love the idea, thumbs way up

 

[Rusty Edge]

I've always liked the idea of navigable rivers so that the Viking longships could attack Paris.

 

[johny smith]

I know the issue of doing it is that the boats generally fall on a tile. So the art can not sit perfectly on top of a river. I am suggesting of intentionally readjusting units so that it appears to be over the river.

I believe there may be a way to have the art always being place to the right of the river artwise. So if the boat is facing the north the art is being placed on the tile to the right of it(east side). If facing west tile would be north of the river. If facing south tile would be west of the river. If facing east tile be south of the river.

This all would be so I could then shift the art in the NIF files to the left to make up for the art. Now the boat itself on the map if it must be placed on a tile then adjust the tiles for the range of boat to take the opposite side of the river as well. So combat on river boats would have to be always head to head. Not Starboard.

Anyway I wondering if that really works. The biggest thing I want to say is I would just like them work. They do not need to be perfect.

 

[strategyonly]

I know the issue of doing it is that the boats generally fall on a tile. So the art can not sit perfectly on top of a river. I am suggesting of intentionally readjusting units so that it appears to be over the river.
Anyway I wondering if that really works. The biggest thing I want to say is I would just like them work. They do not need to be perfect.

As your Avatar says" Shoot for "The Moon."

 

[DRJ]

I like the canoe on river idea. Maybe boats on river tiles could be projected a bit (30-50%) smaller?

Regarding the early ships only in shallow waters: is the event that says 'a storm pushed your boat out in the deep ocean but luckily it found some new coastline after days without seeing land' (and replaces your canoe on a unknown coast) still active? Would like to have some more of those, after all humans got to Australia some 40.000 years ago...

 

[ls612]

There is now a modcomp for this, Strategic Rivers.

 

[PsiCorps]

There is now a modcomp for this, Strategic Rivers.

But will you be merging it into C2C?

 

[ls612]

But will you be merging it into C2C?

Only if we can find the time in between T-brd's new Unit stuff and Multi-Maps.

 

[Hydromancerx]

From the other topic ...

OMG that's so awesome! I WANT THAT!

A ton of things would need adjusting to make it work in C2C, because rivers are no longer tile edges, they are entire tiles, and cities cannot be built on them (mostly). That means all the buildings and bonuses that only work on rivers would disappear entirely. It would also render all existing maps and games incompatible. The river-based buildings might have to change to being on tiles next to river tiles (rather than actually being river tiles [or accept that very few cities can ever build them]), and obviously every map (or map script) would need to be rewritten.

It is rather nice though.

That's the one flaw I saw really too... except my answer would be to allow cities to be built on river spaces. Most of the world's cities are at riverside and most of them have land on both sides once developed out a bit (or are simply renamed on the other side such as Vancouver-Portland). I'd think only graphics would need a tweak to handle the divide is all (a cut down the middle and add some pixel space between them approach may work.)

So very insightful work the guy has there but it would take a lot of work to make happen here. Perhaps down the road...

I want it too, but we need to prioritize. It seems that even though we have the most advanced team on CFC by a long shot, we still have way more ideas than resources to implement them. I think we need to prioritize our resources, which may mean pushing this back a bit. I also would like to wait and see what the author does next on it, and what improvements he makes on his own before we adopt it, sort of like how we waited to see what LyTning did with Multi-Maps before we added it to C2C.

 

[Laskaris]

Navigable rivers are a pipe dream of mine as well, so allow me to add a few comments.

I don't actually mind the graphics glitch of naval units appearing to move over land when sailing on a river. That would be something I could live with.

Maybe an alternate way of having navigable rivers in C2C, one that would not allow as much rewriting of other features as incorporating the Strategic Rivers modcomp, would be this: rivers continue to be tile edges rather than actual tiles. However, for major, navigavle rivers, a feature is added on the tiles on one side of a river. Think of something analogous to a flood plain, but only on one side of a river rather than on both. This feature makes the assorted tiles navigable by smaller ships and impassible by most land units (unless a bridge is built on the tile, or the unit has some kind of river-crossing capacity.

I believe C2C allows for multiple features on one tile, so you could even have something like "forest" plus "navigable river" on the same tile.

Does this sound like a workable idea?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Perhaps, but not preferable imo. I'd prefer to have rivers be allowed to flow both in the center for larger rivers and at edges for smaller ones. This will be a major project eventually and one that I'm very interested in working out someday but for now it doesn't have quite enough priority over other challenges.

 

[Faustmouse]

I also would like to see if your Land-Units walk faster near river-tiles (say: using ships to sail/ row on the river rather than walk).

 

[Mouthwash]

Perhaps, but not preferable imo. I'd prefer to have rivers be allowed to flow both in the center for larger rivers and at edges for smaller ones. This will be a major project eventually and one that I'm very interested in working out someday but for now it doesn't have quite enough priority over other challenges.

Do you know how badly that messes up the Earth maps? You'd have to practically rebuild them from scratch... and it will still be hard to represent certain rivers realistically.

 

[ls612]

There would be many large hurdles to integrating the Strategic Rivers mod into C2C, and considering how we'd like to make Multi-Maps a priority, I'd say let's not add this for the foreseeable future. It has some great ideas, but IMO it would simply be too much work.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Do you know how badly that messes up the Earth maps? You'd have to practically rebuild them from scratch... and it will still be hard to represent certain rivers realistically.

Not too worried about that. We're outdating those maps with other issues constantly, requiring frequent reworking on that front. I'm not about to let that hold us back. Not to say I don't appreciate the work done there. I do. Its just another region of the mod that has to stay ready and willing to continue updating to mod changes. Most recent: DH is changing some features over to resources now.

There would be many large hurdles to integrating the Strategic Rivers mod into C2C, and considering how we'd like to make Multi-Maps a priority, I'd say let's not add this for the foreseeable future. It has some great ideas, but IMO it would simply be too much work.

I agree with this at the moment. It'll be a long while before we make this a priority.

 

[rightfuture]

still love to see this. bump

 

[crazyewok]

Could be a intresting idea, in ealier periods you would have cannoes and later on flat bottom longships and then gun boats and PT boats and river patrol craft.

 

[rightfuture]

 

[Mouthwash]

Yay! But someone really needs to fix those graphics...