NC CLXXVI Hannibal

[Gator Country]

Yeah, BAT installs as a mod, so anyone else who wants to open your save will need to have BAT installed on their end as well. If you want to be able to share saves with everyone here, it's best to install BUG in your Custom Assets folder and use that instead.

One other comment about your save - I wouldn't be building the Moai Statues in Utica at this point, if at all. It's a very expensive wonder at 250 , and that city already has lots of production potential with all those hills. It would be better to have your workers mine some of those hills, and build something more useful to you right now in the city (such as another settler).

 

[VJ.]

Yeah, BAT installs as a mod, so anyone else who wants to open your save will need to have BAT installed on their end as well. If you want to be able to share saves with everyone here, it's best to install BUG in your Custom Assets folder and use that instead.

But my pretty graphics!! Well, it's obviously too late now, but next NC game I do, I'll keep that in mind and won't load BAT.

One other comment about your save - I wouldn't be building the Moai Statues in Utica at this point, if at all. It's a very expensive wonder at 250 , and that city already has lots of production potential with all those hills. It would be better to have your workers mine some of those hills, and build something more useful to you right now in the city (such as another settler).

On reflection, that's a really good point.

 

[Gator Country]

I'm with you on BAT - I use it in all my personal games myself.

 

[civfanchambers]

Every time I load up a game of civ I kick myself in the butt for not getting bat/ bug sooner. I honestly can't imagine playing civ now without bat/bug. On occasion I watch lets play videos of civ4 Bts, and it's painful to watch when the player recording their game isn't using bat/bug. As I've said before, all those who have contributed to the various mods for civ deserve a big pat on the back.

 

[DrCron]

@elite:

Spoiler :

Ah, good point about the Numidian cavalry, I didn't remember their lower strenght. I haven't seen any metal units yet, so maybe I am still on time to rush Suleiman with chariots. I didn't expand much, it's true (though you might see that my settler is already built, so I'll have 4 cities by 1000 BC), but I don't see any other good spots, and I think at this point conquering is better than building settlers, don't you think? I could make friends with Ethiopia and let them live to trade techs (it doesn't look like there are any more neighbors on this continent) but the Ottomans sure look that I could rush them. Konya is right there to be attacked in 1 turn, with those pigs and floodplains, looks like a good city. And I could destroy Suleiman before those elephants of his can be used.

 

[Amao]

@VJ. Welcome! And good news, I'm still having fun with Noble.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

i've played to turn 95, 20 more than you. so, i got a few more cities than yours.

i think the key difference in the beginning was init exploring. i was also planning to settle the sheep/gold site when i found the pig/gold one. it's was a no brainer to turn my settler to this much better place (more food!).

after the first settler, i stopped expanding and chopped out SH which could lift our happy limit to 6 w/o any happy resources, and with the gold, it's 7 now. so, my second settler was a lot slower than normal in this game, after 2000bc.

keep the worker ratio. more worker is required in this game since a lot of jungle to clean up. to fight off the barb, since the neighbors are located south and east respectively, focus barbs from north should be safe. i haven't researched hunting yet in order to be able to get the cheap warriors for city happiness and exploring.

after seeing no wonder than GW was built by 1000bc, i started the Oracle project and just got it a couple of turns earlier. so, now i have Cvil Service and Monarchy, hence the civic change now. very late oracle indeed, this should be very easy game.

if you have any questions regarding my game, ask.

 

[VJ.]

@Amao - good to know that not everyone here is Deiety level!

Spoiler :

I've got to the same turn as you. I've just had a few Barbs teach me a lesson about for not spawn busting by killing workers all over the place - including a Barb galley that I luckily spotted before it did damage, Otherwise I'm in a very similar position, map wise, Except no Oracle for me My City 6 marker is slightly out of where I actually want to settle my next city too; it'll be 1S of that so that pigs\gold are in my BFC.

Spoiler :

 

[civfanchambers]

@Amao - good to know that not everyone here is Deiety level!

Spoiler :

I've got to the same turn as you. I've just had a few Barbs teach me a lesson about for not spawn busting by killing workers all over the place - including a Barb galley that I luckily spotted before it did damage, Otherwise I'm in a very similar position, map wise, Except no Oracle for me My City 6 marker is slightly out of where I actually want to settle my next city too; it'll be 1S of that so that pigs\gold are in my BFC.

Spoiler :

I can play on monarch, and have beaten monarch numerous times, but feel most comfortable and find most fun at prince level. Beating monarch is a little too much work. I play for fun and to relieve stress, not build stress and frustration.

 

[Metaslab]

Thanks for hosting, Gator Country!

Now that I'm done with Bismark, will look forward to firing this up when I next get some Civ-time. Have only read unspoilered comments so far, but -

Spoiler :

Looks like there might be coast to the west? Hmmm... a FIN leader who starts with fishing, and has a UB that gives +1 . I wonder if this might be another GLH-led game? Kind of ironic that Hannibal was the last enemy to fall in my last game. Now he has a chance to redeem himself! (maybe Bismark is even in there as an AI, and he can take revenge)

Spoilered because it contains comments on my Bismark game - no spoilers for this one in there.

 

[pigswill]

General comment regarding initial city placement. Maybe go for the most immediately productive site for first city because its only 160h (cost of CH) to relocate palace if you find somewhere better (and you've got until CS bureacracy before capital makes a big difference).

Been playing this on emperor normal speed, got up to 1150ad. ok so far.

 

[Gumbolt]

Not played this too well with lots of mistakes really. Up to 1000bc. Immortal normal speed.

Spoiler :

Settled in place.

AG/AH/TW/BW/pottery/Med/poly/PH/Writing

I sent my warrior south along coast and stole worker from Zara. Settled south for gold/pigs and sea resource. Then settled east for another gold/sheep/horse resource?? Seriously how much gold do we need??

Took peace and then stole another worker only to lose it to an archer attack.

Anyway I sent 5-7 axes south. Zara managed to get IW and a sword in his capital. Sword and a archer died to my 5 axes. I then headed back north and took out his hill city. Lost 5-6 axes.

Took HBR from Oracle. Probably bad decision but I could use the UU for my second war.

So overall 5 cities. Oracle and Zara down to 2 cities. Might have been better to try for early machinery. Granary and LH in Zara's second city. Nice. Time to take peace for now.

Forgot to switch to slavery too.

Game looks to be very winnable from here.

Edit up to 250bc.

Spoiler :

I build some granaries. Much needed. Switch to slavery. Ottoman empire now has 7 cities and I feel the urge to reduce this. So I start to build/whip NC. I had 14 units mix of 3-4 axe/8-9 NC and a spear. I managed to take down 5 of his 7 cities including his capital and Eridine which has the GW. I lost 5 NC taking his hilled capital (city wall and 60% culture. Carnage!! 4 units taking Eridine. Ottoman has 2 cities left. Both relatively new. Zara has 3 cities left. I popped copper near Utica. I take IW, maths, poly, Sailing and Masonry for peace. I want to take out Zara's city close to my capital before I focus on astronomy and the other Ai. Overall I have the land here and my side of map is pretty much dealt with.

He can keep his 2 cities. Albeit his gold city does have iron. I lack his construction. The 5 techs and 5 cities were worth the peace. 10 cities overall now and I could use a city north of my capital. Need OB with Ottoman soon.

 

[Gumbolt]

Up to 100ad.

Spoiler :

Tried for GLH. Got to about 4 turns from completing it. Some fail gold is always welcome. Next attempt is Colossus. 11 turns with copper.

For some reason I am not getting trade routes with Ottoman.

Declared again on Zara. Just after he found conf. In a happy coincidence I have also just popped a great Priest in my capital.

I attacked his stone city with 8 NC. With only 1-2 losses. I then attacked his horse city below his old capital. Taking with few losses. He had 1 city left and a settler in it. I asked for 20g and conf and he happily gave me it.

Ottoman has cal and construction. I intend to steal calendar once I have whipped a spy. Currency is now in.

Should probably try for mids too for fail gold.

I think I will pause here for now. If I lose this game now I have some expalining to do.

 

[ConfusedCounsel]

Played to about 1500 this game:

Spoiler :

Didn't do much special. Lots of room to expand, lots of gold. Won lib, build cuirassiers, took out Zara, who was at war with the ottomans. Took on the ottomans next. Reduced both to 2/3 cities. Build a bunch of galleons and went to war with the other continent. Babylon had just capitulated under the onslaught of the Mongols, but it wasn't over just yet for them. I have researched rifles in the mean time and upgraded my stacks. Cavalry against medieval units, this continent will not last long, probably. The slow tech pace made this game quite easy. Only Persia is respectable, and he invested in electricity instead of rifles. Might get military science though, but i should be able to deal with that.

 

[InovA]

This is my FIRST immortal level game! *gulp*
I've only beaten Emperor twice, but this should be fun! (No Huts No Events)

4000 BC:

Spoiler :

4000BC:
Settling in place looks good
1S1W maybe offers a resource in FoW, but can't pass up the river tiles + FIN trait.

Thought about going 2N1W or 2N2W, north of gold for the 2nd hammer in the city. This wouldn't be bad if theres at least a little food up there and we share our corn/cows with another city.

1N1W is also acceptable, opening up the origin square as a nice tile, but this forfeits 2
similar tiles and gains 2 coastal tiles.

Moved my warrior 1N1W to see if I'd want to try anything other than settling in place, but ultimately chose to settle in place for faster cottages on the river.

Up to 1000 BC:

Spoiler :

My Tech:
Agg -> AH -> BW -> Wheel -> Pot -> Writing -> Sailing* -> Masonry -> Aesthetics
*I waited at 0% until 2 libraries finished.

City build:
Work-War-War-Settler(@3)-Settler-Work(Chop)-Gran-Work-Lib

3040 BC [T24]: Pottery is a good 3rd tech choice, but we have enough of an early economy as it is and making use of BW should help more.

2nd city:

3rd city: [1S of pigs]

This should have been done in reverse order out of fear of Ethiopia stealing the clams/pigs location, but I lost my first warrior early and didn't have an escort/vision of the pigs by the time my first settler finished.

1920 BC [T52]: This is the critical point I've gotten lazy on in the past, a decision needs to be made after teching writing. The 2 questions that I want to keep in mind are:
*Can I rush an opponent?
-I cannot see their resources yet, so we'll put this on the back burner.
*Are any world wonders worth contesting? [Value gained : Effort put in : Chance of success] (out of 10)
-Pyramids: [7 : 9 : 6]
Always decent, but no stone could make me too slow. Don't think it is worth the trouble.
-GLH: [5 : 6 : 9]
I'll have at least 2 coastal cities, might take 1 or 2 from Ethiopia at some point. Not bad overall, but could there be something better?
-Great Wall: [5 : 3 : 3]
I want to go for the great wall! And though I feel like my tech path is a bit slow for the wall, the tech speedup from gold should make up for it!
-Oracle: [7 : 4 : 5]
Now this is interesting. I want to say that if I go for oracle it would give me time to make another worker or two in my capital and still time out well. In my experience the Monarch A.I. usually finishes the Oracle between 1050-750 BC.

I could start it on T71 where it would be built in my capital with 11 hammers/turn. At 150 hammers, at best I could chop 4 forests for it, making for 70 hammers to go. If I time a whip overflow to it properly I could maybe make it in 5 turns, but it could take as many as 7-10 turns. 850 BC in the slowest case, 975 BC in the fastest.

The arbitrary values I assigned each wonder in this game shows that I think I can get the best "value per effort" out of The Oracle, with The Great Wall not far behind. But the risk vs reward is best from GLH, so until I know when the A.I. usually finishes wonders for certain, I'll make the sound play and go for the GLH here.


The Great Wall - 1480 BC [T63] Ethiopia! I could have finished Masonry by T58, the 150 production needed could have been double, maybe triple chopped, but then still, 90 hammers in 5 turns, not happening. Good call to skip!

Because my 3rd city (coastal) was still establishing itself, I completely delayed tech and went to 0% until my first 2 libraries finished. At around ~300 gold, 1280 BC [T68], I resumed and plan to go for Aesthetics after Sailing+Masonry, then trade for Alpha.

Sailing gave me trading capabilities with the Ottomans, who recently took both ivory tiles nearest to me. He won't trade me one yet so I'm gifting him sheep for diplo.

1000 BC [T75]:
Aesthetics - 5 turns away
GS - 10 turns away
4th city - 6 turns away
GLH starts in 3 turns

Questions:

Spoiler :

-Is there a chart out there on when wonders are usually finished by the A.I.?
-Do you think GLH was really worth consideration, given the information I have? I have not scouted the southwestern shore yet, and GLH might only apply to two cities for quite some time.

 

[Gumbolt]

@ Inova. No spoilers. All general advice mostly ignoring my game so far. Good luck on map.

Spoiler :

GLH now?? 1000bc?? There is a risk you won't get this. Normally I aim for 1500bc or so. You are hoping to get lucky here. Sometimes it can go late. RNG. Yes the pigs/gold/clam city was a no brainer second city for me. Then you could of built GLH there if you definately wanted to grab it. If you have lots of coastal cities it could work very well.

Your Oracle dates for Monarchy will be way out for immortal. In my experience on a bad day it can go before 1500bc. On a good day maybe late as 800-1000bc. Pends on the AI on the map. If a religious AI is about they are normally quicker. I think before 1500bc is mostly safe.

No idea about the wonder chart. Most people use game play experience to work this out. When you move up levels the wonders start to come much sooner.

As for war, you have to judge that on the map. You definately had copper/horses. So axe/chariot or Numidian cav were options. Overall I like to get the basic techs, scout map and then decide if a rush is possible. For axe rush this should be planned pretty much after you get BW. Num Cav rush also needs planning as before 1000bc is best for these. The Ai will get IW much sooner on immortal. Before 1000bc is easily possible for them.

 

[Gumbolt]

up to 520ad. Calling it a night.

Spoiler :

Built Colossus as planned. Coastal tiles now worth 4 commerce. Sweet!

Took out Zara's 2 cities. Up to 15 cities now. Finally got calendar. That and wiping out Zara have improve my happiness. I am 1 turn or so from optics. So should have some caravels out soon. This also means I have machinery too. Slow teching game here as I have such a large empire.

I have whipped quite a few CH and forges across my empire. It is getting tough now to decide on CH. As in some cases I am whipping away 2-3 sea tiles worth 8-12 commerce. To only save 2-4 commerce.

Ottoman is back to 5 cities now. He also has swords and has just finished HBR. Leave him alone or welcome his trade routes?? Tough call. I am starting to build up some units to finish him off. His new cities should be easy fodder. See what happens tomorrow. Sorry for lack of pictures here.

 

[pigswill]

Emperor normal. 1605 conquest/dom.

Spoiler :

Started on coast. Second city to grab horses/FP (eventually became capital), third city south to grab copper/gold. Rexed peacefully eastwards. Got Glite and Colossus.
Slightly unconventional tech path. Zara and Mehmed were very slow, had different religions for worst enemy so tech trading was very limited. Got optics then engineering then astronomy then CS (1040ad). Built Glib about 1000ad!
Trebs and crossbows vs Mehmed and Zara, capped them both. After CS went for steel/miltrad and cleared the other continent with cannon and grens. Bit slow but losses were minimal. Still won lib race (after trading for education).

 

[Gumbolt]

Up to 900ad.

Spoiler :

Met all Ai now. Vikings have a vassel in form of Babylonians. They are also at war with Persians. Persians are losing cities to the Viking.

Other Ai is mongols. Who are plotting a war against someone.

Attacked Ottoman empire again reducing his cities from 5-2. Ran out of steam at his capital. 6-7 units was not enough really.

Burned a golden age to switch civics. I am 15+ turns from cuirs right now but I have astronomy. I have CS/Paper and edu now. Bulbed edu.

The Ai seem a bit backwards techwise. Most lack machinery apart from the Persians. Looks like Babylonians sneaked music 760ad. Great Artist born and no sign they need music here. Probably should of gone for music much sooner. Wanted ocean trade routes.

Undecided on an HE city too. Fish city above capital could be okay. Will be a bit late.

Biggest risk to my game is probably AP. One reason to keep Ottoman alive.

 

[Gator Country]

Emperor normal. 1605 conquest/dom.

Spoiler :

Started on coast. Second city to grab horses/FP (eventually became capital), third city south to grab copper/gold. Rexed peacefully eastwards. Got Glite and Colossus.
Slightly unconventional tech path. Zara and Mehmed were very slow, had different religions for worst enemy so tech trading was very limited. Got optics then engineering then astronomy then CS (1040ad). Built Glib about 1000ad!
Trebs and crossbows vs Mehmed and Zara, capped them both. After CS went for steel/miltrad and cleared the other continent with cannon and grens. Bit slow but losses were minimal. Still won lib race (after trading for education).

Congratulations on being the first to beat the map!

I've updated the second post of the thread with your results.

 

[Powerfaker]

Hi everybody. Just had myself registered en this is my first post ever here. I've played Civ 4 for years and viewed this forum regularly to learn from though.
I'm comfortable playing immortal nowadays.

I really like to read about the posted games here, Reason for me to join in. Fun to see what others do and compair. Hopefully learn and loose some bad habbits in the process.

Hopefully I can contribute something useful for others too.

So here's what I've done till 2150BC
(immortal, epic, no huts/events)

Spoiler :

Despite the stronger opening move being settling coastal PH I chose to SIP for a stronger captital later. My games usually don't end before 1500AD, so this won't be a waste, And with the corn,cow,gold I think one can afford it.

Research Ag-AH-Wh-Myst-BW-Pot
Capital builds worker-warrior to size 3-settler-3warriors-settler-axe
2nd city to pig/gold (tactical, close to Zara), 3rd city 1S of sheep (2175BC). After some axes 4th will head SE if still available.
Meanwhile initial warriorreaches W2 by ± T25, heads for Memeth, starts worker stealing for a total of 5, 2150BC peace is signed (plenty stolen, chariots appear, barbs start heading for cities)

Future plans

Spoiler :

Go Med-PH => Oracle => HBR. Get NumCav, redeclare on Memeth, pillage/roam until I'm ready to take over his cities.
Other than that, grow/expand/build economy up. No ancient era wonders other than maybe GLH. Limited happy cap options => Get HR somehow

First time I play Hannibal by the way. So far I like him.....