Still working at it on Immortal... Spoiler : After Izuuls comment, I reloaded and fastplayed for a HA rush, and since I play horribly, I was 5 HA short of a dozen ( too many stables argh) at 700 BC even on Immortal lol. It was a disaster. Hammy had a spearman prebuilt for every HA I had. I don't know how Izuul does it on Deity. I mean I attack people with metal with HA no problem, but if it's a warmonger (even the nice kind) with the recource in the BFC, I tend to pass if I don't have ridiculous stuff like WC handy. Uck, luckily it was just a reload to learn from . Meanwhile, the original game I talked about earlier, consolidated the 3 way power block between Charlie at 13 cities, me at 14, and Ragnar at 13 with a 6 city vassal. As stated, my plan was to get Babylon online to get all the marble wonders for my juggernaut rennaissance empire. I got all of em besides the most important one... MOM (could've whipped it too ). Screw you Ragnar. I spent a general in the early bc's hammy war on raider 3 cats, and was planning to spend more generals to upgrade more, but considering size of the map, I ended up banking em to make academies in case I need to conquer Charlie. I did end up launching a few golden ages, and even teched Nationalism for the Taj, since I figured it would keep my options open for the lib path. If something strange happened geopolitically I could lib Demo and go for a lategame whallop with early oxford into demo+US + kremlin unfairness. Nothing of the sort happened though, and Charlie became my buddy; so I just libbed Steel +- 1000 AD instead and soon declared on Ragnar and Ghandi. I'm still in that war, it's 1350, have both rifling and steel, and running , finally, my first MOM golden age (thanks Ragnar), and I'm thinking how to close this one out. Am I really gonna have to conquer every city on the continent before I get to domination, or is there a faster way?