Need AW Advice

[vmxa]

As to MGL, remember the check for a leader of any kind will stop the MGL. So when you are ready to try to get one, be sure to have used the SGL, otherwise no MGL.

 

[commodified]

@gmaharriet -- I took a quick look at your game (before and after meeting the Vikings). Here are some suggestions.

Tientsin has a worker due in 1 turn but it won't grow past size 1 for 14 turns! Change to curragh to find the other civs.

Canton is producing 3 shields a turn and has a barracks, yet it's producing a catpult. Build a sword there instead.

Xinjian, Hangchow and Chengdu are very unproductive, so don't build rax there yet. Go for a catapult in Xinjian and workers in Chengdu and Hangchow.

Fortify a spear (or two, since you may be dealing with berserkers soon) on iron mountain--both to protect your most precious resource, and so the Vikings can't attack Xinjian from there.

With some more infrastructure Nanking could be very good.

The cows by Beijing and Shanghai were good to irrigate first, but now it's important to get them both to either 10 spt or 15 spt, so you can build swords in 2 or 3 turns in each.

This is subtle, but remember this regarding worker efficiency: one industrious worker clears jungle in 12 turns. 3 clear it in 4 turns. So 3 x 4 = 12 so it evens out, right? Wrong. For every worker action you also have to take into account the time it takes for them to move there. So for one worker to move to a jungle tile and clear it takes 13 (1+12). If three move together and then clear it takes 15 (1+4+1+4+1+4). In other words, workers moving together to unroaded tiles to work together is inefficient. This is quibbling, but will help you become a better player.

After meeting the Vikings, it appears you have 55% of world population and they have only 14%. In other words, you are too good to play Warlord any more, gma! You seem to have a pretty solid grasp of the fundamentals. I think you would find that you're ready for Monarch and don't need to bother with Regent.

I don't know if it's the same with everybody else, but after becoming proficient at Warlord I quickly conquered Regent, Monarch, and even Emperor. I seem to have stalled there, though.

You can do it!

 

[gmaharriet]

Thanks, mvxa. I couldn't remember which kind of leader blocked the other. So, if I need to use my SGL right away, is the FP a good idea or one of the wonders? The happy wonders mostly only help a single city and WW won't be a problem in despotism or monarchy. The GLib doesn't help much at Warlord with the AI's slow research. Sun Tsu's is quite a ways off, as is Leonardo's...my preference. Guess I'd better check on what's even available so far.

 

[miller4242]

to gmaharriet

Sorry. I completely spaced about you wanting to go AW. It blows me away how everyone else can handle an AW game. I have no idea how the pros do it . I could never handle the ulcers involved in that. Maybe on chieftan

Good luck with your game!

 

[gmaharriet]

After meeting the Vikings, it appears you have 55% of world population and they have only 14%. In other words, you are too good to play Warlord any more, gma! You seem to have a pretty solid grasp of the fundamentals. I think you would find that you're ready for Monarch and don't need to bother with Regent.

I don't know if it's the same with everybody else, but after becoming proficient at Warlord I quickly conquered Regent, Monarch, and even Emperor. I seem to have stalled there, though.

You can do it!

Thank you for the vote of confidence. I think it was Miller who pointed out that even in a peaceful game, there's always the need for one or more missing resources to build a spaceship, and THAT's where I get stuck every time on building up my empire. Even with a strong military, I'm afraid to use it and don't know how to begin. That's where I'm still a noob, and still feel the need of an advantage over the AI.

If I can win this, I'll definitely try moving up.

Edit: @Miller I know EXACTLY what you're talking about!!! Ulcers, here I come!

 

[Desertsnow]

Miller, that would seem like very sound advice for a normal game, but this was intended to be an "all war" game to kinda force myself into military confrontations and learn how to attack and defend. My understanding of AW games is you can't negotiate, trade, or make ROPs, but must declare upon meeting a new civ on the very first turn and no peace treaties are allowed.

That being said, every peaceful instinct in me wants to do it your way. Thanks for your suggestions.

Actually in an all war game you can trade but always conclude your first meeting with a declaration of war.

 

[vmxa]

Some players use the variant that they are not even allowed to trade on the first contact. I don't, but I do not see that it makes much difference. Often you are staying close to home and not making contact right away. So when you do make contact, you often have nothing to trade, especially as you go up in levels.

 

[gmaharriet]

Actually in an all way game you can trade but always conclude your first meeting with a declaration of war.

Wow! This is both easier and harder than I expected. I did trade with Ragnar before declaring. I waited for him to contact me first, which gave me ~20 turns to build up my military a bit more. Even after declaring, it was ~15 turns before I actually killed a warrior who wandered too close. It seems that I'm a really reluctant warrior myself.

Anyway, things have been slowly progressing. It's about 670 AD. I got a great leader and my Rider army successfully took a town, and I'm building the Great Epic. Ragnar has asked for peace a couple of times and I feel kinda sad at turning him down. I've never had him as an opponent, so it's hard to be angry enough with him. OTOH, I know I have to take him out before he discovers Invention and gets berserkers...I'd probably get very angry if he came after me with those. I've only seen archers and spears from him so far. I haven't yet met the other civs.

What I find hardest is knowing what to do next after taking a town. There are about 6 towns left, but they're all still hidden in the fog. My military is huge now and I'm in a golden age. I've lost very few units, but I'm just beginning to get a feel for what will happen when I attack. It seems to get easier each time, so I guess playing this type of game will help me greatly in future more peaceful games.

 

[Whomp]

Good work gmaharriet! Now go find everyone else. Get them in war mode not infrastructure mode. As well, you need to focus your GA on infrastructure. Markets, libs, banks. Use Ragnar to leader fish. If he's only got archers and spears there are some great opportunities to get MGL's with your riders.

 

[gmaharriet]

If I attack with a stack of riders, how do I make sure an elite is reserved for finishing off an enemy unit? I know I've read that here many times, but can't remember the answer or find a specific example. I've been sending my new elites back to heal in barracks, then bringing them back to the front line, but I'm not sure how to control which unit in a stack does the heavier fighting.

I have a galley and I think I know where the other continent is. I saw a lighter blue square just south of me, but didn't go farther. Seems like a 2-front war would be harder. Should I be building up a navy in preparation?

At home I'm building markets and courthouses and a few libs. I don't have Economics yet, so I can't build banks. I'm researching Gunpowder now. Being at war is changing my priorities and order of research a bit.

I've been reading Handy's AWD SG with the Iroquois. Now THAT is scarey!!!

 

[berserks01]

Hey gmaharriet,

I'm with ya man. I'm also trying an AW Warlord game myself. After my first attempt at a SGOTM 7 (AWD). We suffered a pretty quick defeat, it was humbling. My first loss ever!!! Then I tried the COTM13 solo, and I had to retired at 1640AD, since myself and the Aztecs are the only 2 civs left and the Aztecs have TOW Infrantry/Tanks/Mobile Infantry whereas I just got Infrantry

So, I went back to try and learn the basics with a good old AW Warlord game. I randomized everything, and ended up with the Ottomans. I'm currently at war with 4 other civs. They all sued for peace several times and would willingly give some cities in the treaty, but I turned them down everytime. Yet, they kept sending troops

I even, had time to set aside 2 cities for wonder builiding So far I got the GLib, the standing iron statue guy (name slipped my mind at the moment), and are building the Great Lighthouse. I'm at 100AD now, and are about to start attacking the civs one by one as soon as I got Chivary (1 tech away).

 

[vmxa]

gmaharriet if you have say 6 units in a stack, you can select anyone of them to attack with. You can right click and select one or hit wait as they come up or even fort them as they come up for selection.

Making contact with civs on other landmasses is fairly safe in AW as the AI is not real good at invasions. You want to have contacted and declared on all civs by this time. You need them at war.

It will hurt at first as they send in the troops. After you beat down the first couple of waves, it is not bad and they will be locked into making troops. You just have to keep your kill ration very high. This is actually not hard as long as they are not far ahead in tech.

Not a navy perse, just a few ships at the key points. So when you get to bombard one of theirs you can finish it off. I will normally only attack with theirs being down to 1 hp. I do not want to take a loss. Exceptions are when I am not sure that I can handle a landing at that location.

One danger of not having all at war with by the middle ages is that soemone may be able to exploit those civs you are at war with and get very large. The thing to worry about is one civ gobbling up too much land.

 

[Whomp]

Everything vmxa said and...

I've been sending my new elites back to heal in barracks, then bringing them back to the front line, but I'm not sure how to control which unit in a stack does the heavier fighting.

How far back do they have to go to heal? You need to send a (war) settler to the front. Establish a city close to the vikes and rush barracks. If the vikes don't have horses then it can even be left open or your healing riders.

Bede gives a good expaination on how to short rush. Another technique you should become familiar with.

The short version of short rushing:

You want to train a longbow (40sp) in less than four turns in a town netting 10spt. The sequence goes like this:

start - no shields in the box
T1) 10 shields in the box, cash rush something worth 30sp (a settler), it will cost 80g, the remaining 20 shields x 4g per shield. Switch back to LB
T2) production adds another 10 for the 40.
T3) longbow ready to go kill something.

You saved a turn of production time at a cost of 80g. This will let you manage the citizens for maximum food and commerce rather than shield production and minimizes production overruns.

 

[gmaharriet]

gmaharriet if you have say 6 units in a stack, you can select anyone of them to attack with. You can right click and select one or hit wait as they come up or even fort them as they come up for selection.

Making contact with civs on other landmasses is fairly safe in AW as the AI is not real good at invasions. You want to have contacted and declared on all civs by this time. You need them at war.

It will hurt at first as they send in the troops. After you beat down the first couple of waves, it is not bad and they will be locked into making troops. You just have to keep your kill ration very high. This is actually not hard as long as they are not far ahead in tech.

Not a navy perse, just a few ships at the key points. So when you get to bombard one of theirs you can finish it off. I will normally only attack with theirs being down to 1 hp. I do not want to take a loss. Exceptions are when I am not sure that I can handle a landing at that location.

One danger of not having all at war with by the middle ages is that soemone may be able to exploit those civs you are at war with and get very large. The thing to worry about is one civ gobbling up too much land.

OK, I'll send my brave galley out to meet the others and build a few more. I think I have enough riders to fend off small invasions to my south in addition to my main northern front.

As for bombarding enemy ships...can that be done with cats on the shoreline? I only have one galley right now. All the warfare I've ever done has been in Industial Age defensively when an AI sends a galleon to my shores and I've used bombers to sink them before they can land. By navy, I was thinking of enough galleys to invade the other AI's...or should I wait for them to show up?

Another question on bombardment... I've tried using cats mixed in with my horse/spear stacks and keep getting a message that cats cannot be used to bombard...not sure if it's units or the town itself...so I've been just leaving them defending my frontline towns. I think I'm missing something here, but not sure what.

Originally posted by Whomp
How far back do they have to go to heal? You need to send a (war) settler to the front. Establish a city close to the vikes and rush barracks. If the vikes don't have horses then it can even be left open or your healing riders.

Not far. I've been using settlers and rushing a barracks on the 2nd turn to save gold. I have enough riders to defend easily for that 1st turn. I'm sure getting a lot of barracks as I move forward. I'll give Bede's idea some thought too.

I really appreciate all the help. I can see where an SG would be a fantastic opportunity for discussing strategy before playing turns. Being busy working in the summers sure interferes with my fun.

 

[vmxa]

Yes cats/treb/cannon can bombard ships in adjacent tiles. The AI often will turn a ship around with even one hitpoint lost.

Invading using galleys is a chore. They hold only two units and you have to send any army with only one unit loaded. I do it at times, but prefer to wait for caravels. A one unit army is very vulnerable. With 2 in the army, it is better.

If you do have an army to send, drop them on a hill and the next turn fill it up. Of course this means the army stays put until till galleons. That is fine by me as they can be the ace in the hole defender if needed.

I have read some others mention that msg, never had it, so I am not sure what is going on. Cats can definetly bombard, so maybe it is a glitch. Post a save with that going on. Did you try the short cut key?

You can always disband some of those barracks that you no longer need. I would not want to spend to rush them in every town. Just those that will see action.

Sending slow movers back to heal is not always the way to go, often they could have healed and been back in action sooner by staying put. I do it for those that are in danger or have 4 HP missing (elites). If they need only two HP's, it let them heal in place.

 

[Ansar]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but are the Vikings and Celts good AW Regent or Warlord civs(PTW).Not Conquests.

 

[Own]

Don't know about Vikings, but Celts definately not (especially in PTW). The Celts require a monarch golden age to pump out enough expensive GA. In AW, it's unlikely you'll survive with spearmen and archers until monarchy. Ohhh, it's on warlord or regent. In that case, not sure.

It's totally on topic, the title of the thread is "AW advice" .

 

[jm chen]

I love Celts for AW because the Crazypants Swordsmen can range so far, or attack outside a city then withdraw back into it. Fast units are very helpful in upping the kill ratio, and although they are expensive, if you use them right you rarely lose any. I won my first AW game with them, can't remember if it was Regent or Monarch. Give it a shot!

And good luck to gmaharriet. Seems like your game's going well. Did I miss it or do you still have that SGL? What are you going to use it for?

 

[vmxa]

Sorry if this is off-topic, but are the Vikings and Celts good AW Regent or Warlord civs(PTW).Not Conquests.

I have not tried either, so can only postulate.

Celt (Rel/Ag) start with Pottery & CB, Galic Sword.

My guess is UU is good and bad so not impact (cost is bad as you need lots). Ag is good for fast growth. To me AW games are lost from not getting out to 16 cities soon enough.

Vikes (Sea/Mil) start with Alphabet & Masonary, Beserkers.

If this is not an island map, would not care for this civ as the Berserker is slow and has a low defense, in an era of Knights. Yes you can send support and it will kill very nicely on attack, but the truth is you will not be able to have support all the time. It has no retreat.

Alpha is always great to start with and Masonry allows those prebuilds. The best thing is the Military trait for cheap barracks and harbors and faster promotions. This works great for the island map.

Sorry to equivocate so much, but since I have not used it them in AW, I am not sure.

 

[gmaharriet]

And good luck to gmaharriet. Seems like your game's going well. Did I miss it or do you still have that SGL? What are you going to use it for?

Thanks! Yes, it's going well. The Vikings no longer exist. As a partial reply to AnsarKing, I got my Chinese Riders long before the Vikings could build Berserks, so I was able to destroy their civ. That's something you might consider about using the Vikings for AW.

As for my SGL, I used him for the Great Library. I knew it wouldn't help me very much at Warlord level, but it kept the AI from getting it, and I had to use him before I could get MGLs. I got 2 of those and formed Rider armies...absolutely awesome...and I have several elites just waiting their turn.

It's now 930 AD and I've just found the Maya using a suicide galley. They're just one tile too far away for a completely safe crossing, but that will come very soon. I shut the game down before declaring on them...AW is pretty intense and I wanted to be fresh before dealing with another civ.

The best thing about this for me is that in playing another peaceful game as the French, my tummy doesn't knot up now when I see an enemy coming, because I have a much better idea of how to handle them. I now have a few elites in that game as well.