Need feedback for co-op multiplayer regressions mod

[jjs]

Being heavy co-op multiplayer Civ fanatics, my friend and I were quite disenchanted by some of the things that seem to have been left out of Civ V. I intend to write a mod to bring things back in line at least to the level of Civ IV co-op multiplayer. The following are regressions we've identified so far that I'd like to fix (if any of these are actually in the game and I've just missed them, I--and the others who visit this thread, I'm sure--would appreciate feedback on that, as well):

- Save Game/Load Game menu options are gone
- no map tile ping
- no map tile signs
- no ability to view teammates' city details screens
- no indication of teammates' current research progress
- no system for freehand drawing on the map for expansion plans/military campaigns/pointing out when certain game abstractions resemble people's naughty bits
- no toggle for movement and combat animations
- no toggle for full (single-player-style) AI leader interactions
- unable to perform production changes/unit movement after End Turn has been selected but before other players have actually ended their turn
- all participating civilizations are shown on the scoreboard, regardless of whether your team has met them yet
- no option to set the number of civilizations independent of map size
- no option to set turn timer duration
- World Wonder benefits are not shared amongst teammates
- game makes no attempt to place teammates' starting points near one another (unverified)

If people have suggestions for non-game-changing improvements (i.e. nothing that isn't either part of the single player game or can't be communicated between teammates via more mundane channels), those are also welcomed. However, I'd like to address the regressions from Civ IV first.

I intend to update this post to reflect the goals and progress of the mod as needed.

Thanks for your help!

-jjs

 

[HG_CassiusA]

- indication of teammates' current research and progress

If you use the diplomacy panel that lists all the met civs and city states, it will show your teammate's current research, but not their progress.

As an aside, I'm one of those people that is pissed he can't use Babylon in MP

 

[jjs]

If you use the diplomacy panel that lists all the met civs and city states, it will show your teammate's current research, but not their progress.

Ooh, thanks for that info. I'll modify my bullet point accordingly.

As an aside, I'm one of those people that is pissed he can't use Babylon in MP

Didn't even notice this one (we just randomed our Civs). That's annoying.

-jjs

 

[MatthCivfr]

Another thing they did is getting back to civ3 system about report.
You loose report of tech and prod when u finish it : get back the report of tech and prod when discover a new tech or finishing a prod.

Also no rally point.
No queue on workers order.
Bad system about queue in city production
Let host change the team of everyone. (so far host can't change the team of others).

 

[jjs]

Another thing they did is getting back to civ3 system about report.
You loose report of tech and prod when u finish it : get back the report of tech and prod when discover a new tech or finishing a prod.

Also no rally point.
No queue on workers order.
Bad system about queue in city production
Let host change the team of everyone. (so far host can't change the team of others).

The first three are really beyond the scope of co-op multiplayer and more general gameplay changes (hopefully someone will be doing a mod for that kind of thing, too), but I'd forgotten about that last one. I'll add it to the list. Keep 'em coming! >8)

-jjs

 

[Cashew]

I kind of think map signs and especially free-hand drawing would be something you have to be careful about. People used those to grief in public games all the time. Myself included, lol.

Anyways, three things to consider:
1) Always war as an option
2) City Elim as an option
3) Customizable turn timer speed (basically something faster than what the default is right now)

And another one that's general but that profoundly affects teamers in MP is the inability to choose number of civs for a given map size.

 

[jjs]

I kind of think map signs and especially free-hand drawing would be something you have to be careful about. People used those to grief in public games all the time. Myself included, lol.

These people aren't really the focus of this mod. I'm trying to make it fun for people who enjoy actually playing cooperatively. Since it is a mod, anyone concerned about such things should simply not use it for a public game. >8p

And another one that's general but that profoundly affects teamers in MP is the inability to choose number of civs for a given map size.

I'll add this to the list. Thanks!


-jjs

 

[Shiggs713]

If you use the diplomacy panel that lists all the met civs and city states, it will show your teammate's current research, but not their progress.

As an aside, I'm one of those people that is pissed he can't use Babylon in MP

thats actually refreshing for me to hear. At least all the DLC won't fracture the MP community into 1000 pieces.

 

[PTM]

These are the issues as I see them. There is overlap with the list in the OP. This list also includes some things that would improve single player functionality.

Major Issues:
+ Cannot adjust major civilization quantity independent of map size.
+ Cannot choose many of the single player map scripts (Terra, Earth, etc.).
+ Cannot disable the multiplayer scoreboard (the one that auto-reveals the identities of all players and AI, even on turn 0).
+ Various UI problems: toggle for ghosted/faded yields on unworked tiles when "show yield" option is selected is missing, the diplomacy info pane is hard to use in general, various histogram info panels (and just various pieces of gameplay information taken for granted in Civ4 in general) are missing, no method to see what anyone is researching or has researched (even allies), etc. Would like to rescale UI to be significantly smaller than it is. To be honest, scrap the entire UI and redo it... the poor functionality of the albeit-pretty UI is my biggest issue with the game right now. A tall order, likely beyond the scope of this mod, but something someone will do eventually I'm sure. Two or three years ago and I'd do this myself.
+ Cannot create signposts, strategy lines/arrows, or city-cross stamps (would like three crosses available - 1 hex ring, 2 hex ring, 3 hex ring).
+ Cannot ping.

Minor Issues:
+ Cannot toggle "show combat animations" nor "show movement animations."
+ Cannot toggle "show leaderheads" nor "show static leaderheads."
+ It seems like many events aren't obvious enough. Tech research completion has no SFX, for example. I'd like that fixed.

 

[Cashew]

Seeing teammates tech is possible right now but too unwieldy. You have to go to a separate window rather than being able to see at all times what your teammates are teching. This is rather important when trying to get everyone agreeing on what to tech because sometimes someone will just break off and tech by himself and it's good to know when this is happening.

I think the way it was implemented in Civ IV was pretty ideal.

And I'm really adamant about the faster turn timer thing. The double moves and the not being able to do anything after you end your turn both exacerbate this problem, but even by itself the turn timer is slow as hell.

 

[jjs]

Seeing teammates tech is possible right now but too unwieldy. You have to go to a separate window rather than being able to see at all times what your teammates are teching. This is rather important when trying to get everyone agreeing on what to tech because sometimes someone will just break off and tech by himself and it's good to know when this is happening.

I think the way it was implemented in Civ IV was pretty ideal.

I do agree the research-on-the-scoreboard is the best way, and that's how I intend to try to do it.

And I'm really adamant about the faster turn timer thing. The double moves and the not being able to do anything after you end your turn both exacerbate this problem, but even by itself the turn timer is slow as hell.

Adding this to the list. We never used turn timers, ourselves--we've always preferred the "verbal abuse" approach to turn timing--but I do see the need for this. >8)

-jjs

 

[PTM]

More:
+ Need notification on player disconnect or game exit (friend reports that there isn't an obvious notification when someone leaves the game).
+ Need notification on chat message issuance (friend reports that there isn't an obvious notification when someone sends a chat message if one has the chat pane minimized).

And a big one:
+ AI behavior in general. SP AI will make snide remarks about your empire, will ask for pacts of cooperation, will request open borders, etc. In MP it seems that they do not. As a whole, the AI in SP is *significantly* more active diplomatically than the AI in MP. This includes frequency of war declaration too.

 

[Sefyra]

How about a pause function? Or did I miss it?

The last time I pressed the pause/break button, Civ 5 crashed when we were playing a co-op game, so we didn't try it again.

Then all of what you guys already have written annoyed me the first time I played this night. All of are very obvious. So I'm very surprised they weren't in as default. I mean it's not like they haven't made any Civilization games before...

As you all also pointed out, the functionality to not being able to crank up the player limit above 8 really needs to be adressed. We are 3 people that loved to play 3vs3vs3vs3vs3 in Civ 4 (the rest of the teams being AI of course.) Sure, now you might run out of Civs, but at least max out all possible civs in a co-op game would be nice.

Cheers!

 

[jjs]

It seems to us that teammates no longer start the game relatively close to one another, but are rather randomly dispersed as if there were no teams in the game. Does this seem to be the case in general, or have we just been unlucky?

-jjs

 

[Boernich]

One of the things that upsets me the most as a co-op player is that wonder benefits are no longer shared with other teammates, so you end up competing for wonders or having to figure out who 'deserves' a wonder more before building it. Hopefully this can be addressed as well.

 

[jjs]

One of the things that upsets me the most as a co-op player is that wonder benefits are no longer shared with other teammates, so you end up competing for wonders or having to figure out who 'deserves' a wonder more before building it. Hopefully this can be addressed as well.

We suspected this, but never formally verified it. Adding it to the list. Thanks! >8)

-jjs

 

[Gamei]

If you manage to mod in the ability for wonder benefits to be shared across team, can you make it modular? I think the game is balanced pretty well around teammates not sharing wonder benefits. To be frank all I really want from this mod is the ability to ping a tile!

 

[jjs]

If you manage to mod in the ability for wonder benefits to be shared across team, can you make it modular? I think the game is balanced pretty well around teammates not sharing wonder benefits. To be frank all I really want from this mod is the ability to ping a tile!

Of course, that's the idea. I don't want to do anything game-breaking. And rest assured, map ping is going to be the first thing I attempt. >8)

-jjs

 

[PTM]

By the way, do mods even work with multiplayer at the moment? I've noticed that the mod window only has a single player option...

 

[Cashew]

They don't work in MP at the moment, no. I guess this is just getting a head start >.>