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Need help making the jump

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by davhey04, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. davhey04

    davhey04 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    First let me say how excited I am that other people are reading this thread for entertainment or education. Plus, we are over 1000 views! Amazing.

    Second a word to thanks to all who have given advice and counsel, especially namliaM. The time you all spend is greatly appreciated.

    Since I have been posting my saves in the mornings (USA EST) and I'm out tomorrow morning, I thought I would do a double dip and post again today.

    **Actions at start based on previous feedback**

    I fix the idle citizen in Athens. He wasn't idle by design, I was goofing around in there and forgot to put him back to work.

    Coastal citizen in Corinth switched back to the rice farm. Last time out I thought the idea was to keep the cities from reaching the cap. This time, I think I am seeing you want them to jump over the cap and use that extra citizen as a resouce for the whip - allowing you to build faster than you could if you never went over the cap. I'll experiment with that.

    The worker south of Thebes is reassigned to grassland. I was afraid of disease from the jungle.

    I review my diplomacy with my neighbors. Weird, Pacal is 'Cautious' to me and says "Past events have proved your bad nature to us." I don't remember doing anything to him. My good pals Asoka and Zara love me though.

    **Turn log**

    Turn 101: The Greatest Civilizations window pops up, and guess who is #1? Me! Must be a slow year :) I note there are three unknowns, they are on the mysterious Eastern Continent. Someday I may see it... Paranoid Pacal is last on the list, serves him right.

    Turn 103: Sparta finishes its wall. I do what I have never done - I order a Forge. At 10 hammers, Sparta is my #2 production city as well as my #1 science city. Is it wise to do both? I have seen much talk of city specialization but am only now grasping the concept. If splitting Sparta's priorities is a mistake, someone will tell me.

    In other news, Asoka loses a city to the Barbs. Wow - on Warlord? I thought the AI guys handled things better than that. Maybe it's an Asoka thing.

    Turn 104: Code of Laws finishes, and Confucianism is founded in Corinth! Didn't see that coming, I guess no other AI had it yet. I pick Alphabet so I can start trading since I have two pals who like me. I also convert to Conf as the state religion and I send the missionary off to Athens to spread the word.

    Turn 106: Lots of building. Athens: Forge (its my #1 production city), Thebes: Courthouse, Argos: Granary. Conf spreads to Thebes on its own. Corinth is unhappy at 7 but a touch of the whip fixes that and gets the lighthouse done faster.

    Turn 108: Alphabet is done, I pick Compass as it is on the path to getting me off the continent and into contact with the New World. Corinth is a 6 and unhappy again. Can't fix that with the whip - they're still mad from the last time. I'll shuffle some citizens and starve for a bit to get the Courthouse there done faster. I start the quarry near Argos, having finished the iron mine there. Boy, that opened up a lot of new units. More choices - more opportunities to be wrong :)

    Turn 110: Conf spreads to one of Pacal's cities. I chuckle a bit - I don't like that guy. My wandering scout in Zara's lands sees longbowmen. I give him a call to see what techs he will trade me, most of the deals are all lobsided in his favor. (Example: Code of Laws for either Poly or Meditation). But for Metal Casing he will give me both and 20 gold. I take it. He's open to the idea of war on Pacal too, maybe he doesn't like him either.

    Turn 113: Look who's come a-courtin. It's Pacal and he wants Writing. He'll give me Priesthood and 30 gold for it. It's a deal.

    Turn 114: Argos finishes the Granary, starts a badly needed Courthouse. Zara's on the phone again. Offers Monarchy and 30 gold for currency. I find it is hard to evaluate these deals - some advice in that area would be great. I've been comparing the science cost. These seem about equal, so I say yes.

    Turn 115: Compass is done, I pick Machinery to stay on course to Optics. Monarchy gives me the chance for Hereditary rule. A new way to be happy - and I get why this is important now! My cities can grow! I say yes.

    Turn 116: The revolution is over, and Barbs are seen southwest of Argos. Not wanting them to cause problems a dispatch a Horse Archer and they are but a memory. Now lets look at those cities and: YES! The happy cap is raised!

    Turn 117: Athens finishes its forge. I'll have to wait and see if it causes all the pollution I fear. Since there is still unclaimed land, I'll build one more settler.

    Turn 119: Turns out those Barbs came from a city the founded to the southwest of Argos. I might have to do something about that.

    Turn 120: A great prophet is born in Sparta. I send him to Corinth so he can build the Conf wonder.

    Turn 124: Machinery is done, time for Optics. I see the other Civs see the same open area I do - both Zara and Pacal found cities in the area I am looking at. This new city will likely be the last one I found so I need to pick the right spot. Sparta, once seemingly my best city is now stagnant and seemingly lame compared to some of the new ones. I move a citizen to get it growing again, but this drops the hammers down to 6.

    So that's it. I'm in the ADs. I lead in score, in power, and everyone (even Pacal) likes me. This is already my best Warlords game ever - but can I take home the brass ring? There's a lot of game left, a whole new continent to find and three more civs to meet. Maybe with all your help I can do what I have never done: win on Warlord!

    Thanks again - and have a good night/day.
     
  2. davhey04

    davhey04 Chieftain

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    Messed up attaching the save. Sorry about that.
     

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  3. Verge

    Verge Let's hug it out

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    Science/Technology forum!
    So I'm about halfway through my shadow game at this point, gunning for a space win. If I get the time this weekend, I'll go back, post some screens/saves, and give a turn by turn. Otherwise, I'll just save it all up for a single post describing the whole game.
     
  4. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

    Joined:
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    Considering you mentioned not using forges before, and an apparent fear of pollution, I'm just going to mention that there is no "Pollution" mechanic the likes of civ2/3 where pollution physically appears on the map and your workers thus have to go clean it up.

    Just in case you didn't know.

    :king:
     
  5. davhey04

    davhey04 Chieftain

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    Verge - I'm excited to see what you have done with the same 'raw material'.

    Jason - I know its unhealthiness, I just keep calling in pollution by mistake.

    Thanks!
     
  6. namliaM

    namliaM Deity

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    Amsterdam/Netherlands
    That is the general idea, but generaly you will want to prevent any city to have any angry citizens..., again exeptions make the rule.

    Removing jungle ASAP = Chop, Improving cities ASAP = open land first, again exeptions are there, like the gems you mined... That allways gets priority

    This is a random event you missed some place, details... details...

    **Turn log**

    These are not the be all end all of things. Each list has its own agenda, like who has the most gold... STupid things like that, they mostly tell you nothing much about your oponents.

    Specialization is KEY to uper levels. But sometimes you end up with Hybrid cities. Becuase of its location this I think is a hybrid, tho you can still specialize it by simply replacing the grass mines to cottages.
    Also... forges give extra happy face for the gems.

    AI generaly suck at lower levels than noble and Asoka is a general tech whoring but military push over even at higher levels (I only play prince tho)

    Again the religion thing is all about details. You get messages for every founded religion even on the other continent, notice them!

    There is an art to whipping properly, but atleast you are whipping...

    See now that is the art thing, now you whipped and are still stuck with angry people, this helps a little, but not as much ... Allways whip atleast and allways whip before you get angry people not when you have them (exeption to the rule exist!)

    I sure hope you are not upset with me... I am trying to help even for all my comments...

    Whealing and dealing generaly is a good thing...

    Sure needs that one.. tho 3 gpt upkeep for a city is not too bad...

    And you wisely addopt HR, but missmanage it a little. Corinth (IIRC) in your save has 1 unhappy citizen while Sparta has +5 happyness, with 3 surplus units in it, each worth one happy face. Taking the 3 units and sending them to Corinth resolves the happiness problems there and costs you nothing in Sparta.... details...

    We could discuss your priorities in detail, but... pick a goal and stick to it ... Get Optics... yep...

    More cities is good, but your current cities are allready working unimproved land (Corinth, thebes and Argos!) You can do with a worker more than a settler at this point.

    You will win this one... I do think so... if you manage your details a little better... and get those tiles improved! Even now you are allready (atleast) 4 techs ahead of Zara, even with this many underimproved land... Your techlead will only increase if you manage to get those tiles improved.... ! ! ! I suggest you use both Thebes and Corrinth to get you a worker ASAP!
    Think about it first yourself, how will you get them to produce workers ASAP?
    Spoiler How :

    Get 1 turn of production into the worker, next turn crack the whip for 2 population


    I think there is room for 2 more cities, 1 where you are heading grabing both Rice and Cows. And one inbetween Corinth and Argos grabbing the Dye
     
  7. davhey04

    davhey04 Chieftain

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    namliaM,

    Thanks for all your great comments as usual. I will get on these in detail when I get back from my errands. One thing - you were worried I was upset with you - far from it! I get very excited when I see a new post from you.

    Thanks again!!
     
  8. davhey04

    davhey04 Chieftain

    Joined:
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    **Actions at start based on previous feedback**

    Transferring a horse archer from Sparta to Corinth to deal with unhappiness.

    **Turn log**

    Turn 126: Courthouses complete in Argos and Thebes. At namliaM's suggestion I will queue up a worker and let them each biold for one turn before bringing down the whip.

    Turn 127: Pacal, with his creepy red eyes and odd smile, wants Alphabet with nothing in return. I have twice his score, and I just don't like him. So - no dice! He makes a big display of anger, but still likes me. I then dangle Alphabet to see what he would offer. Monotheism and 20 gold sound good, so we have a deal. My first crossbowman completes in Athens, and I instruct my capitol to build a courthouse next. Organized Religion becomes available due to Monotheism. Buildings build faster, and it was my only religion anyway so I pick it. My new city, Knossos, is founded right between the Cows and the Rice.

    Turn 128: Ahg, with so much activity last turn, I forgot to whip the workers complete in Argos and Thebes. I do so now. Further unhappiness in Corinth (size 10) even with the military units causes me to whip the courthouse done there as well. Yikes - I feel like quite the taskmaster!

    Turn 129: Workers are done. I notice Akosa has passed Zara in score. Corinth is still unhappy at size 9. Temples produce one happy face so I queue one up. It is becoming a challenge to keep track of what is going on in all my cities.

    Turn 132: Optics is complete. Calendar is 3 turns away and will allow me to use those spices I have had for so long. Akosa offers me 20 gold for sailing. At 190 gold, I don't need the money so I say no. He's doing good in the tech department, he doesn't need any favors from me. I've been pretty hard on the AIs this session, I hope that won't come back to bite me. Since I have so much gold, I might as well go to 90% research for a bit.

    Turn 133: Corinth is a 10 again, unhappy and still mad at me for the last whip (11 unhappy faces). I move citizens around to try to get that temple done faster. Not a lot of options there though, this city seems mostly about food. Calendar is done, 2 turn to Aesthetics, which leads to Drama. I'm doing this because of the ongoing unhappy problems. Athens completes it's temple and starts a Caravel.

    Turn 136: Corinth's temple is done. Once the whip pain wears off, it will be a happy 10. Time for Caravel #2, to double my chances of reaching that new world.

    Turn 137: Aesthetics completes, it's weird to hear Sid's voice. On to Drama. A random event says that my horses near Athens are race horses and I get a nice gold boost.

    Turn 138: My first caravel is complete, christened the 'Athena' since it came from Athens. Staying with the oceanic motif Athens will make a lighthouse next since I am already working 2 sea tiles there.

    Turn 140: Drama is complete, and it's a fast 1 turn to Literature. If I understand things right, temples and theatres should allow my cities to get bigger while staying happy. The whip effect on Corinth has worn off and it's a happy 10 now. I note that Zara took 2nd place back from Akosa and that all the civs on my continent have converted to my religion. Nice. Checking the power graph though, Zara is right behind me in power - I have been slacking off on my military. I'll try to keep that in mind.

    Turn 141: Lit is done, I pick Feudal to get the longbowmen.

    Turn 143: I notice that is a 5 but it's happy cap is 10. Wow - I need to get some growth and some tile improvement going there.

    Turn 145: Zara offers me Feudal (done in 2 turns) and 50 gold for Lit. Might be a mistake, since he is growing in power and score, but I say yes. The 50g will allow me to stay a negative gold growth and still research at 90%. Zara though, I'm getting worried about him. Feudal enables Serfdom, which I take. Guilds is next, to get Knights. Athens was making the Temple of Artemis, but someone else finished it. I switch to longbowman there. The Athena makes landfall in the new world - my first contact is with Ragnar. His score is even lower than Pacal. I notice he has construction, which I don't, but he doesn't like me enough to trade it yet. I trade him Mysticism for 10 gold and he switches to 'pleased'. I'll give him another ring soon.

    Turn 146: Another new contact - Isabella. She's annoyed with me based on my 'heathen' religion, but a trade of 10g (from her) for Code of Laws moves her to cautious. Her score is a little ahead of Pacal, a little behind Akosa. At the moment, Zara is firmly in second.

    Turn 147: Corinth finishes its (probably unneeded) Caravel, which I name 'Corinthia'. It will head west to see if I can circumnavigate the globe first. Both Corinth and Athens are now unhealthy 11s. I pick aquaduct next for Corinth.

    Turn 148: Zara offers me wheat (with it's +1 health) for horses. I say yes, but I wonder if that will help sickly Athens and Corinth. The first of many longbowmen is completed in Athens and heads for a Zara bordering city. (Knossos).

    Turn 150: Another 25 turns in the books. Even at 90% research I have only -1 GPT so it would seem I am managing the economy ok. Zara scares me, I wonder if I am just being paranoid. Perhaps not, since he has now passed me in power. I think I should spend my next 25 turns focusing on shoring up my defense. These 25 turns were mostly focused with reaching the new world (complete) and getting my happiness under control (seems in good shape too)

    Thanks all!
     

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  9. namliaM

    namliaM Deity

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    Hmz, trading Alphabet is usually a last resort... Alphabet enables tech trading and generaly YOU want to be key in any tech trades, not allowing the AI to trade as long as possible.
    But atleast you are trading :goodjob:

    Hmz, courthouse in your capitol... usually not that usefull as your capitol allready has very low maintenance. It is currently saving you 0.8 gpt!
    However the cheaper option of a monastary will ad 10% of your beaker count, 2.4 beakers. See what I mean about decisions?

    Adopting OR is good going, but I hope you will focus on buildings while in OR...

    Double whipping generaly is not a good idea as you get double the angre...

    You will learn to NOT keep track and analyse each city and its needs combined with your empires needs as you progress.

    Yep, good choice... I think this is the time to go for Calander, you can use the happiness boost and have a few workers now available to actualy build those Plantations! :goodjob:

    Yep it is, if you wan to slow down its growth... get some specialists. You should really try to minimize the specialist count in your capitol... Capitols should genarly be working mines/farms/cottages

    Why Drama? Theatres dont help with the happiness situation without either Culture slider or Dye, which you cannot hook up yet?
    So Why Drama?

    You will find it faster... not a chance in Civ4 for a boat to sink. I hope you send one ship west and another east. To hunt for the bonus of +1 movement of finding out the world is round.

    Again good choice, a little late maybe as this would have been better than the courthouse (I think) but still Good Choice

    You are all about defence arent you?? Wow, You remind me of me, 5 years ago :)
    You are ignoring one very important tech now for a while and I feel it time to piont this out to you.
    Civil Service (CS) is a very important tech for 2 reasons
    1) It allows macemen (yes offensive units and nicely powerfull)
    2) more importantly it allows Burocracy
    This is the reason your capitol should hardy ever run specialists unless for a real good reason (your first GS for example). Burocracy add 50% hammers and 50% commerce to your capitol (mostly your strongest city). Get to researching it and get to Buro allready !

    You notice where? But yes if a city is at 5 and a capacity of 10 it needs to grow ASAP

    Hmz, Serfdom over slavery... I choice I seldom make, but you are -still- under-worker-ed so saving 50% on worker builds is just what you need. Good Choice again !

    I allready got on your case about CS, so I will stick to this...
    Atleast you go for guilds for the knights not the grocers... at only 10% gold a grocer will not help you much...


    Do not be to trade happy once you meet the new world, get to know a few civs first before you trade and find out their relations to one another.

    Same thing be carefull a bit more.... CoL is a big tech to give away at 10 gold...

    Not unneeded and yes west, good job ! Aquaduct... maybe...
    But... a harbor works the same as an aquaduct (of you get fish in nets to help the clams), the harbor is cheaper and gets 50% more on trade routes (= 2 gpt extra). A harbor therefor would have been a better choice!

    Wheat for horses... hmz... He would probably have done wheat for cows/spice or another resource... At higher dificulties, giving away horses or metals .... its a rare ocation.

    Yes you are beeing paranoid, they guy is atleast 4 techs (important ones too) behind you...
    Code of Law (IMPORTANT!)
    Mathmatics (therefor also missing calander)
    Compass
    Machinery (Also missing Optics)

    So that is actually 6 techs he is behind.... and you are running away.

    Uhm... You forget about the MOST important think, tile IMPROVEMENTS and that task is still not done. All and I do mean ALL of your cities are working unimproved tiles... this and this only is one of the main problems at the moment. You only have 5 workers to 6 cities and you still have 1 city to build (on top of the coastal Dye south of Corrinth)
    What is more you have a think lumb of jungle to cut away left and right. You need atleast 1 maybe 2 more workers and get to improving those tiles!

    You connected one of your incense, good... Now why go and connect a second.. its only good for trading... and nobody has anything to share with you at this time, so WHY get it? Use your worker to do something usefull, like build a cottage in your capitol or Sparta... or something...

    Remember the cow for 1 gpt deal? It is STILL going for 1 GPT, evenso Zara has 2 more GPT available for you. I suggest you cancel that deal and renew it for more gold! Ehm, in retrospect... you would have to sell him something else like Gems or Spice because now he has his own cows... so maybe that is not worth it....

    Overall, not bad I think :) but get to improving and get that last city up and running, it will add a happy face and more commerce. But you need to improve it a lot (lots of jungle there) so... time it ...

    Edit: Oh and check you EP points! They are whack! in particular with meeting new civs you may want to re-evaluate the distribution

    Also check you specialists, what is the reason for a Specialist spy in Corinth ? Scientist or something I think...
    For the moment the others are OK I think, even the Scientist and Engineer in Athens, I allways hate to wast GP Points...
     
  10. davhey04

    davhey04 Chieftain

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    **Actions at start based on previous feedback**

    I remove the Spy specialist in Corinth (created by mistake) Since this city is an 11 and cannot be a 12 without becoming unhappy, I make 2 scientist specialists. Some how I ended up with an Engineer specialist in Athens, which I undo.

    I prioritize Ragnar and Isabella on my Espionage screen to get more data about them.

    Remind myself to focus on tile improving.

    ***

    Turn 150: I meet Charlemagne in the (to me) New World. He has the highest score of any civ I have met from that continent. Foreign Advisor tells me that Isabella doesn't like him.

    Turn 151: For what it is worth, I am listed as the most cultured civ in the world. Seeing that Akosa could now give me 2 gpt, I renegotiate our clams for gold deal to get 2 gpt instead of 1.

    Turn 152: Pacal wants to give me 20g for Calendar. I change it to Aesthetics and he agrees to the deal. A great prophet is born in Sparta. I already have the religious wonder - I could use him for Theology but I have him be a super specialist instead, which gave me a nice gpt jump.

    Turn 154: Guilds is done, time to listen to namliaM and get going on Civil Service.

    Turn 155: 'Running with bulls' random event in Sparta. A 40g investment nets me 300 culture. Southern ice blocks the Athena's attempt to navigate past the New World. I'll have to send her back north to look for a easterly passage.

    Turn 158: Civil Service is completed. I agree to Bureaucracy. Next research is construction, which I want to get me to engineering. The +1 trade routes and defense bonuses provided by castles look nice.

    Turn 160: Isabella wants open borders. Heck she's thousands of miles away - why not? As soon as I agree, Charlemagne and Ragnar declare war on her! Such a savage land over there, not like our peaceful continent. I check the power graph and even thought I have been making units pretty regularly, Zara is still right there with me in power.

    Turn 163: Decision time. Charlemagne, who is already annoyed with me, wants me to help with the war on Isabella. I could say yes, then not help at all. Or I could stay true to my peaceful goals, and probably make Charlie more mad. I decide that my civ will be not be bullied and decline his request. Shaking his fist, he vows that he will remember my refusal.

    Turn 164: Now Isabella wants me to assist her war efforts by giving her Construction for nothing in return. I don't play favorites, so the answer is no.

    Turn 165: My second caravel Corinthia has been exploring the north east coast of the New World for a few turns now. I am surprised to see there is still unsettled land over here.

    Turn 166: With Engineering done, I switch to Astronomy for the ocean trading. Probably should have done that one right after Civil Service. Yes - I have proven the world is round! A nice feather in my cap as all my ships become a little faster.

    Turn 167: Now Isabella wants me to share in her war with Charlemagne and Ragnar. Take a hint lady, I'm not interested. Settlers found what is likely to be my final city, Mycenae right near 3 sources of dye.

    Turn 168: Whoops - I accidentally built the Hanging Gardens in Athens. I clicked on it several turns ago while in the city, got distracted and never checked back. Thats a big goof on my part - I need to check what my cities are making more often. Ironically, even with all that, Athens is still unhealthy anyway.

    Turn 169: Isabella loses a city to the HRE. She is now last in score. Inspired I check the power graph. I have a small but firm lead on Zara and we are both way ahead of everyone else. Considering Zara is friendly to me too, I can probably back off on the defense a bit.

    Turn 172: Interested to see why some cities can build castles and some can't I look it up and see that walls is a requirement. Never knew that. Noting that I have a lot of ocean tiles being worked, I ask Athens to build yet another wonder - this time the national wonder Moai Statues. I also note that my specialists in Athens keep changing without me doing anything. The spy is back - why is this happening?

    Turn 173: A Great Spy is born in Corinth. I send him to Thebes (my top espionage producer for some reason) to make Scotland Yard. Ahg - after I make the building I see that Thebes has a spy specialist already I didn't order. I turn that one off but that is starting to bug me.

    ***

    That's it again. There was a lot of diplomacy in this round - that's a tough area to know what to do it. I still am leading on all fronts and feel like I am in the driver's seat. I think I fixed the tile improvement problem, but I don't know why my cities are assigning specialists on their own.

    Thanks!!
     

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  11. Rub'Rum

    Rub'Rum Hates acronyms

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    It's sort of difficult to never engage in any war. Even if you are peaceful and want to win by diplomacy, you have to take a side and stick to it, anyway, that's what I noticed... Basically, if you don't have enemies, you also don't have friends... usually.
     
  12. namliaM

    namliaM Deity

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    Cool, there you go!

    *brrr* talk about your basic gready AI... On higher difficulties you would get more gold for your techs. Generaly I dont know if it is worth it to trade a 351 beaker tech for measly 20 gold :(


    Why settle him in Sparta? Corinth is your money city, the Priest settled gives 5 gold per turn + 1 hammer. Corrinth can both use the hammer and add the 5 gpt to the 19 allready there from the shrine. This goes towards specializing your cities..

    Do you need the 300 culture? Or the 40g?

    Depending on how fast you are going to get to economics... Castles are expensive wastes of time IMHO, but you are a defensive player still... I never bother to build any if I dont have Stone.
    Construction enables your Unique Building! This is +2 :) instead of the +1 :) of the colloseum. I think you could have used this one earlier, dont you think so?

    Like "Simon says" ;) pick one side and stick with it...
    Supporting neither is generaly not a good idea...

    More trade income is allways good :), So Astronomy should/could have been earlier, yes...

    Buidling HG is not all bad... :)
    Ironicaly tho... You meantion Athens is unhealthy, yet you have not examined all the ways to get health resources!
    - The banana near Sparta still has a farm instead of a Plantation
    - The fish east of Athens still has no Nets.
    - Athens doesnt have a Grocer
    - Zara is willing to trade you wine, which gives health with a Grocer
    - What is more, you have NOT renegotiated the deal with Asoka, you sold him your second clams. Now you dont have any yourself, which is 2 health....
    In the diplamicy screen with Asoka, click on " current deals" and cancel the one for 1 gpt and you will restore your Health situation... details....

    The best defence is a good Offence, you can actually build something other than Archer units and still be powerfull.
    Did you notice that you are paying 1 GPT in unit cost at the moment?

    Basicaly because you havent improved the tiles... Running a spy is better than working the bare ground... I think...

    Details! Details... Your top espionage city is allways your capitol because it has the palace with is +4 EPs... What is more a SETTLED great spy gives 12 EPs, where Scotland yard only gives +100%. Your city has to go to 12 EPs to just break even. AND then the Settled spy gets +3 beakers! Your first great spy NEVER builds Scotland Yard! Big mistake (sorry to say) but again Details! You could/should have checked this before building Scotland yard, WHY build SY and not one of the 3 other options ??

    No you have NOT, I am sorry to say...
    - Athens
    Has 1 farm it doesnt need and is lacking 3 cottages
    - Sparta
    No plantation on the banana (1 fpt you are missing!), yet you are building a plantation on a banana you are never going to be able to work... Lost worker turns right there!
    Furthermore it is stagnated, having the scientist and has many a unimproved tile
    - Corinth
    Working 4 coastal tiles and 2 scientists, where it could/should be working 5 grassland cottages, which currently do not exist!
    - Thebes
    WOW Thebes... it is working a JUNGLE HILL Tile for 1 hammer per turn.... *ouch* talk about waste... More over, the plains and Plains forest ...
    While there are 4! riverside grasslands waiting to be cottaged....
    It is stagnate because of this and... WHY the market?
    This city needs health more so than Happiness, Aquaduct or Grocer rather than the Market.
    - Argos
    This is OK-ish...
    Tho WHY the market? Argos needs health not happyness, therefor a Grocer and/or Aquaduct would have been better. The market or Grocer will bring +25% gold of the 1.3 it is allready producing... adding the grand total of 0.3 gpt :(
    - Knossos & Mycenea
    I am not even going to comment on...


    Now tho is time to get worried, because of your under developed state of your lands Zara with his bigger empire is starting to catch up in techs. You now only have 4 techs (not including Astronomy which you nearly have) he doesnt have and he has 2 you dont have. So all in all you have a 3 tech lead on him, which was 6...

    On the deal front, Pacal has 5 GPT to spare... maybe you could use that?

    You are currently running 90% science, which is to high... (strange as that may sound)... but a bigger empire can run much more science even at only 80 or 70% science. Moreso a lower slider on beakers may actually put your market(s) to good use.... Adding 25% to 2 GPT = 0.5 adding 25% to 20 GPT = 5
     
  13. jessiecat

    jessiecat Divine Monarch

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,405
    Location:
    Cornwall, somewhere near England
    In case nobody's mentioned yet. What about your civics?
    It's 1812, and you're still in hereditary rule, barbarism, serfdom and paganism?
    You need representation
    bureaucracy
    caste system
    organized religion
    You should have switched as soon as you could. Its a bit late now, but it
    will make a huge difference in production, great people and culture.
    For instance, where's the benefit of having a state religion,
    but you're still stuck in paganism? (You should have changed that in B.C)
    The other thing I noticed was that you've got nearly 1000 in your treasury
    and you're keeping 8 or 10 military units in each city. Better to cut that down
    to 4 or 5 per city and upgrade them, esp those simple archers to longbowmen.
    Less quantity, better quality, right?:)
     
  14. namliaM

    namliaM Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,792
    Location:
    Amsterdam/Netherlands
    Jessie did you look at the most recent save?
    He is in OR, not Paganism
    Burocracy, not Barbarism

    It is not even 1812, but rather 1150 :( thanks for the help tho :cry:
     
  15. davhey04

    davhey04 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Messages:
    34
    namliaM,

    I think Jessie is looking at my save from the first page, which was from an older game.

    Reading your comments helped me realize something. I -think- my problems with my cities is that I am reacting to what they are doing, instead of looking at what they could be doing.

    For example, you have been nudging me about citizens working unimproved tiles. So I looked to find citizens that were doing that, and improved the tiles they were working on. I think what I should have done is found the best tile for them to work on, and then improve it.

    I'm confused though on your suggestion to reduce my science slider, while at the same time warning me that Zara is catching up on tech. How can I research things faster if my slider is lower?

    Thanks!
     
  16. jessiecat

    jessiecat Divine Monarch

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2007
    Messages:
    4,405
    Location:
    Cornwall, somewhere near England
    Yes, I was looking at the first saved game. didn't realise everybody had
    moved on to another. But my comments about the first one still stand.
    Not really very good for 1812, was it?
    I'm sure you got a lot better in later games, right?
     
  17. Tae

    Tae Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    130
    Awesome thread.

    I put Civ 4 down after struggling to make the jump from Warlord to Noble. Funny thing is I bought BtS the day it came out and have never played it.

    This thread is helping me get back into the game, I am going to play on Warlord first to learn the changes in BtS. Thanks.
     
  18. Rub'Rum

    Rub'Rum Hates acronyms

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2007
    Messages:
    4,582
    Location:
    Québec
    I just made a jump too, I just beat my first game on Noble with Bismarck on a continent map at epic speed. I had beaten Noble in warlords... But BTS is a bit tougher apparently. Does Epic make it easier? In any case, the game was not very nice on me, I set all AIs to random and here is who it threw at me to help me with my third attempt at noble:
    On my continent: Hammurabi (aggressive), Tokugawa (aggressive)
    On the other continent: Boudica (aggressive), Shaka (aggressive), Ragnar (aggressive) and Darius (not aggressive but quite powerful traits combination and freely distributing techs to everybody apparently).

    Well well, that certainly looks like there'll be a bit of action.

    I won by invading Tokugawa (a long war) vassalising him. I really don't like having Japan as a neighbour, this guy is a consistently annoying presence in my games... So I said "hell with that, let's pummel him". He resisted quite well and even took some of cities back from me, but in the end, Germany prevailed. I then had most of my continent, and Hammurabi was my buddy. I then developed like crazy and pushed research. But I didn't do my mistakes of old; I kept pumping up units and ships and modernizing my army. I had to keep up with Boudica who was apparently building a huge army and was annoyed with me (she had vassalized Shaka!). After a while she sort of gave up and declared on someone else. At some point there was a major world war since I had to accept war requests from my friends, but I never got involved much and no one dared attack my mighty Germany with large quantities of troops... It seems you just have to deal with the support cost of your army. I used to be scared of having a large army support expense, but this time I just built one anyway... As for world wars, I contributed by sinking random boats with my submarines and that's it. I ended up easily winning a space race victory, one of my captured Japanese cities had over 300 hammers and produced ship parts faster than I could research.

    If I had been more of a warmonger, I could have won by diplomacy earlier. Weird? No. Darius, Tokugawa and Hammurabi all voted for me consistently in the United Nations. Our votes combined let me 10-20 votes short of a diplo victory. So I could have taken a few more cities and won like that... But I'm sort of lazy and just sat back. Now that I know I can win on Noble though (and with nice neighbors too... jeez), I might try different things in future games.

    I guess my original question was whether or not epic or marathon speed make the game easier...
     
  19. namliaM

    namliaM Deity

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    Location:
    Amsterdam/Netherlands
    No not really good for 1812, but... thats what the thread is for, so... Look at the last save and see if he is doing better. Just judging from the civics, beeing in Buro, OR... yes...

    In other parts still learning, but getting there.
     
  20. namliaM

    namliaM Deity

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    Location:
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    Yes, thats kind of the deal... For example Thebes... it is working the plains tile because the 1food/1hammer is better than the 1 food jungle grassland/river tile.
    HOWEVER removing the Jungle and putting a cottage down makes it 2 food 2 commerce, which is better than putting the cottage down on the plains, making it 1 food 1 hammer 1 commerce. All offcourse is situational, sometimes you need this, sometimes you need that.... but overall... this is the idea.

    Not exactly... my point is...
    90% science out of 200 commerce = 180 beakers
    70% science out of 300 commerce = 210 beakers
    Eventho you are at 90% beakers, this is not really all that good. You are only creating 180 beakers (just grabbing numbers here, not facts from the game).
    You could/should instead be only running 70% science and create 210 beakers.
    What is more, because you are only generating 10% gold, your markets are not really that usefull as if they would be if your slider was at 30% gold.
    The overall point beeing the slider is not the be all end all of your tech speed, empire size, cottages, specialists, trading opportunities ... it all figures in...

    I.e. I have Currency and Calander which 2 AI dont have
    One has Construction and the other Iron working.
    Now I can trade Currency to Contruction and Calander to Iron working.
    The AIs now trade eachother currency for Calander, putting us on level tech.

    Instead I can trade, for example Currency for Construction. Now currency is known by 2 people, lowering its value. So AI 2 will not trade currency for Iron Working. Instead I offer it Currency + Construction for Iron working. Leaving me still with the "secret" of Calander to trade later on...

    That also is the point of trading, get the most out of trades. If you sell CoL to AI1 and AI2 doesnt have it either... go see what it will give you for it. Instead of the 2 AIs trading amongst eachother and catching up faster that way.
     

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