Need some help with Japan

With Japan you can settle easily 2 historical cities on the west side of the North Americas. I think getting there in the Renaissance/Industrial before others do gets you a lot of resources, as culture spreads into the Rockies, letting you control the California/Oregon region. Not sure why they have claim on this but might be the large influx of Japanese immigrants to these areas in the late 1800's. Big culture range there could access you a lot of the USA before the USA even appears... Just be aware of the Mexican Flipzone :P
 
With Japan you can settle easily 2 historical cities on the west side of the North Americas. I think getting there in the Renaissance/Industrial before others do gets you a lot of resources, as culture spreads into the Rockies, letting you control the California/Oregon region. Not sure why they have claim on this but might be the large influx of Japanese immigrants to these areas in the late 1800's. Big culture range there could access you a lot of the USA before the USA even appears... Just be aware of the Mexican Flipzone :p

Be prepared, though - America will get conquerors and declare war on you around 1850 or so.
 
I finally did it boys. Finally figured out the Japan puzzle.

The US was crushed and vassalized with ease, with my main tech rival under my control I coasted to a smooth victory.
 
I finally did it boys. Finally figured out the Japan puzzle.

The US was crushed and vassalized with ease, with my main tech rival under my control I coasted to a smooth victory.
Well congrats on earning the win! Looking at your save, I noticed a couple key differences in the way you play Japan vs the way I play it:
  • You ended up running Free Market/Nationalism, while I stuck with Isolationism. Looking at the differences between the civics in Worldbuilder, however, it seems like your civic choice is superior, and nets a lot more :commerce:
  • Partly because I would be running two civics that give a free specialist in every city, I tended to maximize the amount of cities in my empire. I would settle 2-3 cities in Manchuria, keep as many cities in Indonesia/Indochina as I could, and not raze any cities. You are able to maintain a 100% :science: rate (compared to my 40-50%:science:) and I think your lesser count of cities might be why.
How did you manage to vassalize America? Did you end up nuking them?
 
So i tried to do the UHV and gonna say, it went fine. The trick is to basically eat all of China and use it as a power base.

However, for some reason, Korea decided to break free. At Shaky. Isn't it suppose to be at Unstable or lower?!
 

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So i tried to do the UHV and gonna say, it went fine. The trick is to basically eat all of China and use it as a power base.

However, for some reason, Korea decided to break free. At Shaky. Isn't it suppose to be at Unstable or lower?!
Yeah, I had the same problem with one of my Japanese games. It was very frustrating, because it basically ruined the game for me, and it shouldn’t have happened. I don’t think it’s intended to happen at shaky stability, but I believe Leoreth is rewriting the code that deals with all that, and hopefully preventing it from happening when it’s not supposed to.
 
Yeah, I had the same problem with one of my Japanese games. It was very frustrating, because it basically ruined the game for me, and it shouldn’t have happened. I don’t think it’s intended to happen at shaky stability, but I believe Leoreth is rewriting the code that deals with all that, and hopefully preventing it from happening when it’s not supposed to.

Since i already know the route of conquest and the build, ill retry it again but this time, ill have no choice but to cheat the independence back if it happens on Shaky or above
 
Yeah I try to always go for less cities personally

Well congrats on earning the win! Looking at your save, I noticed a couple key differences in the way you play Japan vs the way I play it:
  • You ended up running Free Market/Nationalism, while I stuck with Isolationism. Looking at the differences between the civics in Worldbuilder, however, it seems like your civic choice is superior, and nets a lot more :commerce:
  • Partly because I would be running two civics that give a free specialist in every city, I tended to maximize the amount of cities in my empire. I would settle 2-3 cities in Manchuria, keep as many cities in Indonesia/Indochina as I could, and not raze any cities. You are able to maintain a 100% :science: rate (compared to my 40-50%:science:) and I think your lesser count of cities might be why.
How did you manage to vassalize America? Did you end up nuking them?


Yeah I think I played Japan at least 10 times in the last 3 years first time I ever beat thier UHV.

I saved game and switched to isolationism early on but noticed a huge drop in beakers and commerce so I reloaded. I think having double merchants and having corporations spread helped a lot. I noticed your save was probably a 3000bc start? No shrines in Chinese cities? Or maybe I missed something. Shrines with all commerce buildings definitely helped me, plus merchant special buildings there and Tokyo with full merchants running

Even in your game your on pace too catch up to US, just a bit late. I noticed Japan can really take flight with full infrastructure in China and core cities but I have to do it WAY earlier to catch up to US in global era.

I had Mexico as an ally. I quickly took over the west coast while Mexico attacked from the south. I finally was able to use my ZEROS to shoot down all US planes and used my airports to transports tanks to help Mexico take cities. Left some troops with hill upgrades blocking the hills to the west coast and by the time I took Santa Fe US was willing to vassalize, i had Manhattan project a few turns away from finishing and getting that bomber in case the US was too strong but I gladly accepted the vassal instead, let Mexico keep the southern US cities too keep US tech rate down and then just told to research other techs so I was free to research what I wanted.
 
Yeah I try to always go for less cities personally




Yeah I think I played Japan at least 10 times in the last 3 years first time I ever beat thier UHV.

I saved game and switched to isolationism early on but noticed a huge drop in beakers and commerce so I reloaded. I think having double merchants and having corporations spread helped a lot. I noticed your save was probably a 3000bc start? No shrines in Chinese cities? Or maybe I missed something. Shrines with all commerce buildings definitely helped me, plus merchant special buildings there and Tokyo with full merchants running

Even in your game your on pace too catch up to US, just a bit late. I noticed Japan can really take flight with full infrastructure in China and core cities but I have to do it WAY earlier to catch up to US in global era.

I had Mexico as an ally. I quickly took over the west coast while Mexico attacked from the south. I finally was able to use my ZEROS to shoot down all US planes and used my airports to transports tanks to help Mexico take cities. Left some troops with hill upgrades blocking the hills to the west coast and by the time I took Santa Fe US was willing to vassalize, i had Manhattan project a few turns away from finishing and getting that bomber in case the US was too strong but I gladly accepted the vassal instead, let Mexico keep the southern US cities too keep US tech rate down and then just told to research other techs so I was free to research what I wanted.
I was always hesitant to not use Isolationism, just because opening myself up to trade with the west means they get those lucrative trade routes as well, not just me. I'll play around with the civic combinations in this game I'm playing, see what works best. I also remembered State Party is a thing, so maybe spamming cities wouldn't be the worst idea with that civic. I do prefer the 3000 BC start as Japan because, while you might be missing the shrines for Confucianism/Taoism, the Chinese/Koreans have had plenty of turns to settle their great people in the cities, and build manufacturies or armories. I figure that, if I'm running Egalitarianism, all those extra settled specialists more or less make it even with the 600 AD start with the shrines. Good stuff on that vassalizing America strategy. I think my biggest problem in attacking America is that, by the time I've conquered by Asian goals, America is starting to pull ahead in tech/production, thus making war with them increasingly difficult. I'll see what I can do in my next game though!
 
I finally managed to pull off a Japanese historical victory! Even crazier: I did it without attacking America! (Though I certainly had the military/industrial capacity to do so if I wanted.)
Spoiler The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. :

20200616021659_1.jpg

I'm a little hesitant to claim that I found the meta for how Japan "ought" to be played, but I think I did. So here's how I pulled it off:

I settle Kyoto on spot, and Edo north of the river. I adopt Citizenship and Clergy. The Himeji Castle is my first priority, and I run artists in both cities, with walls and castles to further boost :culture:. I settle the great artists in Kyoto. With the Himeji Castle constructed, I switch over to Vassalage and Tributaries. I gradually build up my military in Kyoto (redistribution + tributaries) in order to prepare for my invasion of the mainland.

With my 1st goal completed in 1481, I invade Korea, take Shenyang, and take Beijing, only stopping due to expansion stability limitations. As I enter the Renaissance era, I settle Nagaskai (Northwest of gold tile), Sapporo (North of Dye tile), and a couple of Manchurian cities. I wait until this era to settle because new cities built in this era receive a lot of core buildings. I adopt Meritocracy, Regulated Trade, and Isolationism. I choose Isolationism because Japan's unique ability will keep me more or less at tech parity with the West, and I want to begin building my specialist economy. As I get closer to the Industrial era, and my stability remains solid, I begin taking more Chinese cities. When America spawns, I put most of my :espionage: into him.

After I enter the Industrial era circa 1860, I conquer the rest of China, take the Philippines from barbarians, and adopt Democracy, Egalitarianism, Constitution, Free Enterprise, and Nationhood. Open borders with all countries (except America). I build myself up into a strong empire, taking the lead in score. I build several wonders: Statue of Liberty, Abbey Mills, Westminster Palace. I use a spy to sabotage American production of the Statue of Liberty, but unfortunately I didn't notice that he stole the Tsukiji Fish Market from me, otherwise I would've sabotaged that as well. With the Chinese cities growing as large as they tend to do, my expansion stability is over the limit, but I manage to keep myself from going Unstable with other modifiers. I initiate two golden ages from my great people.

As I enter the Global era circa 1920, I do one last civic change, adopting State Party and Secularism (and my empire name fittingly changes to Empire of Greater Japan). I invade Indochina, take Indonesia from the Dutch (starting WW2 in the process), and, thanks to Secularism, build the Forbidden Palace. At this point, with my expenses cut down to a bare minimum, I can pump my research up to 90%, and even 100% if I finance it with great merchants and selling technologies. With no number of cities maintenance, and a free specialist in every city, acquiring more cities is my strategy, and I conquer as many cities in the area as I can. I tried taking a couple of vassals (primarily for the :) benefit) but they both ended up collapsing.

With as many specialists as I was running at this point, and due to State Party, my :espionage: count goes through the roof, eventually passing 1,000/turn. I put enough :espionage: into the tech leading civilizations to keep tabs on their research, but I ultimately end up putting them all into America. I achieve my research goals, while stealing the technologies that America researched first. The great spy from Psychology I use to infiltrate America as well. I keep this up through the Digital era, and on through until my victory in 1979. Like I said, I had the capabilities to seriously cripple, if not destroy, America, but I decided against it, as my expansion stability was kept over capacity almost the entire game. That, and I saw that I would end up winning if I kept doing what I was doing, and I didn't want to risk messing with that.

I attached my save game from the turn that I won my victory, if anybody is curious as to what my empire looked like.

One more thing. I noticed there's a fairly common bug as Japan (not sure if it affects any other civilizations) where another civilization, be it Korea, China, etc., will respawn from under you when you are only at Shaky stability. Since the Civilopedia states that this should only be possible at Unstable stability, I wouldn't feel any moral reservations about taking notes about how your cities are supposed to be the turn before they spawn, and using the world builder to correct matters when they do spawn in. ;)
 

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Jesus, good work.
Do you think the strategy would work on normal speed? Or does marathon have some advantages? The main ones I can think are that in general units are slightly easier to get on marathon and that you would have an easier time shipping your spies over, idk if that's a factor. Also, marathon after 1900 is basically unplayable for me lol...
 
Please report saves if you see respawns from under you on shaky.
 
Jesus, good work.
Do you think the strategy would work on normal speed? Or does marathon have some advantages? The main ones I can think are that in general units are slightly easier to get on marathon and that you would have an easier time shipping your spies over, idk if that's a factor. Also, marathon after 1900 is basically unplayable for me lol...
Thank you, it took me many tries to get it right. As for the advantage of marathon, I honestly don't think it mattered too much. The conquests are spread out over several hundred years, and I had several spies stationed in my Hawaiian city, where I had a dedicated caravel to ship them over to American cities. On normal speed, you could simply have a couple of caravels shipping spies to multiple cities, for the same effect. And it's not like I won by the skin of my teeth either: I was the first to research at least 10 Global technologies, and I think I could've been the first to research all but one of the Digital technologies. So if I was a bit less efficient, it wouldn't have mattered all that much. But yeah, a Japanese marathon game is a real slog, but I enjoy the slower paced nature of marathon, so it is what it is. :lol:
Please report saves if you see respawns from under you on shaky.
Unfortunately I don't have a save to report. Korea did respawn from under me at Shaky, but when I loaded an autosave from a couple of turns earlier, it didn't happen again.
 
Please report saves if you see respawns from under you on shaky.
Here are saves, where Chineese respawn (in 1765). I can also make some saves, where Koreans do this, faced this several times.
(I'm playing downloaded v1.16)

Defenetely, the hardest UHV so far. Had no chance against England last time. They had all techs of the industrial era and some of the global in 1890 (Monarch/Marathon).
When I've entered the world builder, was a bit shocked.
Seems like they have more than 2x tech speed modifier (Macroeconomics 7776 vs mine 20217)

Civ4ScreenShot0106.JPG
 

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Okay, I will check.
 
I finally managed to pull off a Japanese historical victory! Even crazier: I did it without attacking America! (Though I certainly had the military/industrial capacity to do so if I wanted.)

Could you tell me what technologies did you go for? I have no idea if I should beeline to specifics or go to the cheapest one, or when.
 
Could you tell me what technologies did you go for? I have no idea if I should beeline to specifics or go to the cheapest one, or when.
From what I can remember, I don’t believe I beelined any technologies. My goal was either to research the cheapest technology available, or to be the first to research a Global/Digital technology. This was because my first and foremost goal was to reach and maintain the technology lead. I may have beelined ballistics though, to have appropriate units to take on the western colonies in Indonesia.
 
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