need tips on spawn busting

[CivNoobie]

was playing the victoria deity shadow game

I can't seem to last 50 turns before barbs began to barrage me with all those annoying archers.

I was still at 1 city when AIs already have 5-6 cities because I can't settle due to constant harrass by barbs. I understand axemen are important, but it's only available AFTER mining->BW->wheel. AH is good for chariots but it would require hunting and that would also mean no BW= no chopping.

 

[cseanny]

I was still at 1 city when AIs already have 5-6 cities because I can't settle due to constant harrass by barbs. I understand axemen are important, but it's only available AFTER mining->BW->wheel. AH is good for chariots but it would require hunting and that would also mean no BW= no chopping.

On Deity there's not enough time to tech AH and BW. If you don't have a strategic resource after you've finished one of the above then Archery is required. And Chariots don't need hunting .

 

[Macksideshow]

Don't go wandering with your warriors, except maybe a tiny bit early before barbs, park them on hills (preferably) just out of the field of vision from your borders so that they don't leave any fog between them and your cities. This may will require a few sacrifices, ie. building an extra warrior or 2 when ideally you'd build a settler/second worker or working some hammers over food for a bit. Don't keep a warrior in a city that doesn't need a garrison for happiness.

Keep building them and parking them so you cover all the way round your borders. If a barb moves to go past your ring of warriors don't let it, move back towards your city so you're always closer. If a barb kills one of your warriors, replace it asap, preferably immediately.

If a few barbs start looking like they are going to threaten one of your cities pull your warriors back to the city to defend in numbers. One barb can only kill one warrior a turn, even if it does it easily. This is a danger time because your spawn busting ring has been compromised, get them back in position asap but take it as warning you're going to need more than warriors soon if it keeps happening.

This works pretty good for barb archers, especially if you have forested hills you can use to park your warriors on. Once the barbs get axes you need more than warriors, chariots are ideal but you can also replace your warriors with archers if there are forested hills and deal with them in much the same way.

I find that if you can get a good spawn busting ring up early, it really helps if the terrain is favorable, the barbs will leave you alone.

 

[pomthom]

Mah' Three Laws of Spawn-busting:

- Law #1: a unit spawn-busts barb units in a 5x5 square area centered on it (2 tiles in every direction including diagonally), regardless of land (coastal tiles are busted even it's a land unit) and regardless of the fog of war in that area​

- Law #2: cultural borders do not spawn-bust barb units in tiles it cannot "see", ie. a barb unit can spawn 2 tiles away from your border if that tile is in fog (and if it's not spawn-busted per Law #1)​

- Law #3: Law #1 does not apply for barb city spawns, a barb city can spawn on any tile that is not unfogged as long as it is on a "blue circle" (those that appear when moving a Settler - edit: to be confirmed)​

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If you manage to get a decent spawn-busting network early, getting Archery or a strategic resource makes it a bit less urgent (but just a bit...).

I find that the easiest way to estimate properly your spawn-busting is by Alt-X'ing BFC's on your spawn busters, it helps (suggested to me by shakabrade) - don't forget that a bit more than the virtual BFC is spawn-busted, you have to include the diagonals:




And be careful to unfog decent food spots for them barb cities!

 

[nfw]

But barb cities can pop up any where not within LOS of your units, even inside the "busted" area.

If you have a lot of land the best thing is building the Great Wall.

 

[pomthom]

But barb cities can pop up any where not within LOS of your units, even inside the "busted" area.

If you have a lot of land the best thing is building the Great Wall.

Yep, hence my point #3

 

[Ghpstage]

- Law #3: Law #1 does not apply for barb city spawns, a barb city can spawn on any tile that is not unfogged as long as it is on a "blue circle" (those that appear when moving a Settler)

How certain are you of this? I thought "blue circles" are decided on a civ to civ basis.

EDIT
Found this old related thread. My interpetation, from combining it with what i've seen in the code;
The values AIs put on city sites seem to be unique to an individual AI, in that distance from its capital and lands as well as its map knowledge is condsidered.
The barbs however don't have a capital and map knowledge doesn't seem to apply so they bypass a lot of the site selection process for other civs and jump straight on the highest value sites, explaining why they tend to appear in areas of massed resources.

 

[pomthom]

This was just an assumption based on experience, I may be completely off track. When I raze a barb city there's always a blue circle under it.

I'm not aware at all of the mechanics, but I thought that different AIs prioritized different blue circles ; the blue circles being the same for everyone...

 

[Pangaea]

I've noticed that too, that there tends to be a blue circle where the barb city were.

 

[Strickl3r]

AH is good for chariots but it would require hunting and that would also mean no BW= no chopping.

AH requires Hunting if you don't start with AG and you don'T want to tech it in the first place, but it isn't required for chariots which is kind of what your post sounds like. Spearman needs Hunting.

Fogbusting on deity doesn't mean preventing every possible barb city from spawning, sometimes there is just nothing you can do, but important is to save the very important spots nearby.

Also a lot of Forum playthroughts look like perfect play, often times though, i highly suspect there is reloading involved. So if you new to deity maybe you wanne reload a couple of times and test out what you can do to at least prevent the most important spots beeing blocked by barb citys. Pangeea maps help a lot although you might get boxed in by the ai a pangeea is still a resonable mapscript and you might wanne try low sea level on that mapscript cause it actually helps from my experience.

 

[Macksideshow]

Bear in mind that a barb can spawn outside a busted area then walk into it, so there still can be a barb in a busted but fogged area

 

[MegaLurker]

Don't forget to pay special attention to areas of desert, tundra and ice. I don't know what the actual numbers in the game code are but I always assumed those tiles have a significantly higher chance to spawn barbs, they just seem to pour south from arctic regions especially that aren't fogbusted.

 

[rah]

And pay special attention if your neighbor has built the GW, for all those extra barbs that slide along the edges of the wall.

 

[auagxa]

AH requires Hunting if you don't start with AG and you don'T want to tech it in the first place, but it isn't required for chariots which is kind of what your post sounds like. Spearman needs Hunting.

He did say in the OP that he was playing with Victoria, which doesn't start with hunting.