Nethack

[Izipo]

<Edit>
On second thought, why can't you go back? Did you dig your way down into Medusa and Castle level?
</Edit>

Entered medusa's level, fell into a trapdoor and went back up to kill her.
Actually there IS a level between Medusa and the castle, I forgot it when I made the post.

Wand of cold/Cone of cold spell - turn water to ice, which you can walk on (and will not melt).

I thought of this, but of course it's in my stash in the level ABOVE medusa.
Looking back on it, I was quite unprepared and got carried away while going down.

Boulders - see if there're any on your side of the castle maze. Push it down the moat. Be careful about something breaking the drawbridge from the inside.

No boulders in the castle and I already used my scrolls of earth in medusa to reach the middle island. Still a lot of water to cross.

Water walking boots - Got some unidentified boots on you? With blessed waters you can even try the cursed ones. Depends on how many boots you've identified, this may or may not be useful.

Nope!

Amulet of magical breathing - Swim! Stash away anything that could get wet. Blessed metallic items are a bit less likely to rust.

Ditto!

Polymorph - If you have polymorph control, turn into something that can fly. Then you can fly over the moat, either into the castle or back up.

Neither Polymorph control, nor polymorph. All my unidentified wands are above, I still lack ID scrolls.

Saddle - chances are slim, but you can ride a flying pet (like a dragon).

Pet died. No saddle. No dragon in sight.

Just swim - with the drawbridge broken, you might get lucky and get back up on the other side. Standard procedure for protecting items that could get wet. (Edit: not usable for crossing Medusa level)

Thought of that too, but risky.

A cursed potion of gain level. NH like puns.

Don't have one, but I'm wondering if it would work in Medusa's lair. It's a no-teleport levl. Too bad, because I have a wand of teleport and teleport control.

Dig down - if you can handle the nasties down there, just dig down. You might find a way to fly down there.

That's probably what I will try, and wish for something good.

Or some crazier idea. Get punished! Make your god mad (might get other effects), or better yet read a scroll of punishment. Then throw your connected iron ball and see how far Physics will take you!

Thanks again for your help. I just need to find the resolve to go deeper. I'm scared.
It's too bad really, I was thinking "I should go back up (lvl15) to do the quest, but I need fire resistance, one...more...level", turned out to be one too many
This game is amazing.

 

[kcwong]

Once you BUC wands, you can identify many of them without using ID scrolls by engraving with them. For example:

Find a "clean" square. Write "X" in the dust with your fingers. Then engrave with a wand, writing "Elbereth". Most wands with give an unique effect. Experiment with them! I found a wand of wish lying on the ground on DL1 a few times like that.

For ID scrolls, it's usually pretty common. If you can find a shop, price ID all your scrolls. The cheapest set of scrolls are harmless, and one of them will be ID.

Or if there are no shops at all (I got that once), collect all your scrolls and try out the most plentiful ones.

Before reading unidentified scrolls, lock yourself in a closet (or any safe place, preferably with a pet around or on the E-word), remove all your items, stash fragile ones, and equip useless armor and weapon. That is to get the usual message to identify some effects, as well as to prevent damaging your good stuff (like reading a scroll of destroy armor).

 

[LordKestrel]

From the first time I ever played all the way through:

# offer
What do you want to sacrifice? [gE or ?*]

Amulets
E - the Amulet of Yendor
Comestibles
g - a blessed lizard corpse
(end)

You offer the Amulet of Yendor to Tyr...
An invisible choir sings, and you are bathed in radiance...
The voice of Tyr booms out: "Congratulations, mortal!"
"In return for thy service, I grant thee the gift of Immortality!"
You ascend to the status of Demigod...
Do you want your possessions identified? [ynq] (n) y


-----


That was such a relief I played a whole lot less after that, I think I've only ascended 3 times total, although somewhere I have a few saves with chars who baring YASD, are ready to begin the run.

 

[Izipo]

Well, well, well, I finally found a solution.
Went back up a level and examined really closely my inventory...
Turned out I had a cursed scroll of teleport. Add to that a ring of teleport control and my troubles were over.

Retrieved my stash, did some mass ID, grabbed a bugle and went back down to the castle. I have to say that the ring of conflict that I just IDed helped greatly .
Used the wand of wishing to wish for a ring of levitation
Now I'm deep down in Gehennom, the major demons haven't been a problem so far (Jubilex, Asmodeus and Belzeebub), and Vlad was a non issue.
I'm growing uncomfortable because my set of armor is degrading slowly (AC -14 for now) and scrolls of enchant armor are hard to come by.
I'm Xlvl 16, my weapon is +6 Excalibur (since lvl6), I have MR and Reflection (Perseus' shield), an amulet of live saving, and nearly all the resistance intrinsics.
I'm trying to convince myself I'm good to go, but still I'm uncomfortable.

Comments ?

EDIT : Can you believe I haven't found a single scroll of genocide so far (and all scrolls are IDed).

 

[kcwong]

Since you've ID'ed enchant armor, you can write new ones yourself with magic markers (use blessed blank paper). With high luck it's pretty easy.

No luck for genocide though... non-wizards have next to zero chance of writing an unidentified scroll. Maybe wish for some.

How complete is your ascension kit?
- Wands of Digging
- Wands of Death
- Wands of Teleport
- Cursed potions of gain level
- Cursed scrolls of gold detection
- Unicorn horns
- Bag for fragile items
- Separate bag with emergency blessed potions of water

How about some nurse dancing?
I've also read about the fun of releasing packs of tame purple worms on the astral plane. Reverse genocide, taming, teleport zaps. Then wait for the blurrp's.

 

[Izipo]

Since you've ID'ed enchant armor, you can write new ones yourself with magic markers (use blessed blank paper). With high luck it's pretty easy.

OMG, and I thought only wizards could write scrolls
So I guess I'll have to dilute scrolls to make blank paper, and find a way to get magic markers... Polypiling unicorn horns ? But, then I don't have wand of polymorph...

No luck for genocide though... non-wizards have next to zero chance of writing an unidentified scroll. Maybe wish for some.

I wouldn't even know what to genocide, though. Liches don't seem to be a problem, I've clearded Orcus town already (mimics can live another day ), so...

How complete is your ascension kit?
- Wands of Digging : 8 or 10
- Wands of Death : 2
- Wands of Teleport : 6
- Cursed potions of gain level : just one (Moloch sanctum, right ?)
- Cursed scrolls of gold detection : NONE, but wand of secret door detection.
- Unicorn horns : 4, one blessed.
- Bag for fragile items : greased BoH and another unIDed bag
- Separate bag with emergency blessed potions of water : Holy water, right ?

How about some nurse dancing?

Yeah, my max HP is low (121). But first, I still need scrolls of genocide...

I've also read about the fun of releasing packs of tame purple worms on the astral plane. Reverse genocide, taming, teleport zaps. Then wait for the blurrp's.

Sounds fun, but I'm not that good with pets. My dog is long gone. I had a white baby dragon once, but he couldn't follow me (I'm invisible).

btw, I still have 3 wishes left.
A blessed fixed +2 cloak of displacement seems like a good idea, since I just have a basic +1 elven cloak.

Also, what's the deal with the orb of fate ? I've tried to invoke it, but it 'ignores me'. I'm at Dlvl38 and wearing a ring of teleport control.
Something wrong ?

 

[LordKestrel]

How complete is your ascension kit?
- Wands of Digging : 8 or 10

First time I went up, I think I took 20. You really only need about 3-4, possibly as few as 1-2.

- Wands of Death : 2

Should be fine, more is always useful of course

- Wands of Teleport : 6

Probably more than you need, but useful.

- Cursed potions of gain level : just one (Moloch sanctum, right ?)

The more the better really. Helps for things like Jubilex, Medusa, Castle, etc. Big Room can be nasty (not sure if you have that one in your game). The faster you get upstairs, the less time available for Rodney to respawn.

- Cursed scrolls of gold detection : NONE, but wand of secret door detection.

Does that work the same? It's been so long since I used one of those, I don't remember

- Unicorn horns : 4, one blessed.

I think I only carried 2, but make sure they are all blessed.

- Bag for fragile items : greased BoH and another unIDed bag

Greased bags will wear off. If at all possible, get oilskin (unless you're sure that the unid is oilskin). Might as well ID it really. Also, make sure the BoH is blessed.

- Separate bag with emergency blessed potions of water : Holy water, right ?

Correct. The more holy water you can carry, the better. You'll be amazed at how many things get unblessed/cursed as you run upstairs.


You're probably good to go. If you do decide to do some nurse snuggling, tin them once they die. Blessed tins of nurse meat act like a full healing potion (just make sure you're not full).

If you do feel like genociding, L, F, ; are all good choices. I typically do R as well, I can't stand those things.

Oh, something else I thought about. If you are invisible, I don't think displacement works.

 

[kcwong]

OMG, and I thought only wizards could write scrolls
So I guess I'll have to dilute scrolls to make blank paper, and find a way to get magic markers... Polypiling unicorn horns ? But, then I don't have wand of polymorph...

You're correct on how to write scrolls. Wands of polymorph is usually pretty common, so keep looking.

I wouldn't even know what to genocide, though. Liches don't seem to be a problem, I've clearded Orcus town already (mimics can live another day ), so...

Yeah, my max HP is low (121). But first, I still need scrolls of genocide...

Yup, reverse genocide is what the genocide scroll is for.

Sounds fun, but I'm not that good with pets. My dog is long gone. I had a white baby dragon once, but he couldn't follow me (I'm invisible).

Magic whistle is super handy to have for pet keepers... failing that, a leash or a tripe ration in open inventory will work.

btw, I still have 3 wishes left.
A blessed fixed +2 cloak of displacement seems like a good idea, since I just have a basic +1 elven cloak.

Blessed fixed +2 oilskin cloak is another good choice.

Also, what's the deal with the orb of fate ? I've tried to invoke it, but it 'ignores me'. I'm at Dlvl38 and wearing a ring of teleport control.
Something wrong ?

Artifact #invoke has a timeout, so you can't use it frequently. Also Orb of Fate has a limited number of charges.

 

[Izipo]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm still scared, though.

I've checked about displacement and you're right (both of you), invisible cancels it. So I'll go for the Oilskin cloak.

About the Orb of Fate : I used it once already, but it was at least a thousand turns ago. Is the timeout that long ?

One important question : Once you have the amulet do you need to go all the way back up on feet ? You cannot use level teleport ?
Now, that is a big news...
That woul explain the term 'asenscion run' though...

Anyway, I'm not on my computer this weekend and it's driving me crazy. I'm looking forward to playing...
But still very afraid.

Thanks again for all the good advice. I'll let you know how it turns out.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

Could you upload the save, please, I'd like to try.

 

[Izipo]

Wouldn't this screw up my game ?
I mean, isn't there some kind of protection when you copy the files?
I remember a game, also with permadeath, that screwed up your save if you tried to alter it.
Can't remember the name of that thing but it was great, some kind of space war... From the Sean O' Connor windows games pack.

EDIT : Name is Critical mass. Very good.
You can dowload the demo, I also recommend Slay, an excellent strategy game.

 

[LordKestrel]

There is no downside to copying your save. Just make sure the game is shutdown when you do it.

 

[Izipo]

Oh OK, then I'll do that sunday night if people are really interested (not on my PC now, can't wait... I foresee very little sleep tomorrow night ).

 

[Reno]

The save copying only screws the game if you do as follows: 1) save & quit Nethack 2) copy the save file 3) continue playing with a copy stashed away 3) (get killed) 4) paste the copied save file back into the Nethack folder.

This almost guarantees that your character will meet his own ghost thus you gain your own inventory twice.

That is of cource cheating and thus a strict

 

[LordKestrel]

The save copying only screws the game if you do as follows: 1) save & quit Nethack 2) copy the save file 3) continue playing with a copy stashed away 3) (get killed) 4) paste the copied save file back into the Nethack folder.

This almost guarantees that your character will meet his own ghost thus you gain your own inventory twice.

That is of cource cheating and thus a strict

I don't think we were promoting savescumming, we just want to see his save

 

[Izipo]

Okay, this could be fun. We could all try it and compare how we fare.
Included is the save of Izipo86 the male (don't ask) Valkyrie.

Currently at Dlvl 17 (stash), ready to do the ascension run.
There is a Level teleport trap a few levels below, to quickly get to the Valley of the dead (Dlvl 27).
Orcus town at Dlvl 36, with Vlad's tower (empty).
The vibrating square is marked with a scroll at Dlvl 48.
The entrance to Rodney's tower is just above (Dlvl 47), it's been cleared up to the top level.

Ascension kit is decent, lacking in certain areas (only 1 cursed potion of gain level).
AC is -24 with GDSM, shield of reflection, speed boots, oilskin cloak and amulet of life saving.
Rings include conflict, teleport control, levitation, free action.
Bag of Holding is full of wands, scrolls and potions. You might want to use the wand of enlightenment to check intrinsics (surprisingly, I lack fire resistance).
Also there is a wand of wishing (1:2). In retrospect, it would be a good idea to wish for scrolls of genocide and genocide those very annoying master mind flayers (master liches, too).
There is also a nearly empty magic marker and some blank paper.
Don't forget to check the chest near the altar and put the blessed luckstone in the BoH (in case the Orb of Fate is lost...).

Good luck to all, here is what transpired for me after a few hours of play :

Spoiler :

Started out really easy, quickly got to Rodney's tower and used wand of death to kill him. Book of the dead fell in the moat, but I had a wand of cold.
Entered Moloch's Sanctum after the invocation and it started to go downhill.
The High priest killed me, and thus I lost my amulet of life saving. For some reason I also lost the Orb of Fate, which I miss very much (warning and half damage). Started to go back up but soon was overwhelmed by double trouble, master liches and master mind flayers. Had some very tough spots and lost part of my inventory for unknown reasons. The other part I simply 'forgot' about. Also I kept going down and had to 'remap' whole levels over and over again. Finally managed to go back to Dlvl 17 and stopped there for now.
My Kit is wrecked and I have to ID again huge parts of it. My wands of death and of wishing are somewhere in the bag, but lost in the clutter. So are my rings and potions. It seems like I've lost my ring of levitation, which is a very bad omen for the plane of water. Hopefully I have boots of water walking.
Well, my hopes are not high for the planes. The difficulty went dramatically up since I got the amulet and now I see this may not end in glory and immortality. Well, at least I will have beaten my previous score by a considerable margin.

 

[Izipo]

Quick question :
How does one recovers the Amulet of Yendor once the Wizard stole it ?

Because I'm stuck on Level 1 - without the damn amulet - and I don't know what to do...

 

[LordKestrel]

Quick question :
How does one recovers the Amulet of Yendor once the Wizard stole it ?

Because I'm stuck on Level 1 - without the damn amulet - and I don't know what to do...

Find him. Kill him. Take back what is rightfully yours.

Spoiler :

If you do wish for scrolls of genocide, wish for them blessed. You can then just type L when it asks what to genocide, and it'll genocide all L, not just master liches. Same with F instead of just mmfs. I don't recall the exact number you can wish for, I think 2 gives you a guaranteed 2, with more than that declining rapidly. You could wish for 10 for instance, but you're highly likely to just get 1.

I really need to go find my nethack spoiler notes, those things were incredibly useful.

Oh, one other thing. Do you have a lamp at all? (I haven't pulled up your save yet). If so, try rubbing it, you never know what you might get

Oh, another thing. Your run in with the mmf is why I try and keep a chest with a few blessed id scrolls in it. Put the chest on a square with a burned Elbereth and a cursed item (so your pets won't pick it up), and then when you have your brains sucked, you can read them without fear and id everything you are carrying. I think the only thing that might do anything with the chest would be a gelatinous cube, which you can either prevent by genociding, or just finding somewhere on the level and killing.

Spoiler :

Also, I'm not sure how effect it is anymore, but did you try pudding farming? It used to be all the rage when I last played.

 

[kcwong]

Find him. Kill him. Take back what is rightfully yours.

And if the Wizard double-troubled you, be very careful... don't get cheated.

 

[Hitti-Litti]

LordKestrel@ I assume that mmf = master mind flayer? It's marked with "h" instead of "F". So if you want to get rid of mind flayers, genocide "h". Unless you're a dwarf, in that case you'd just kill yourself.