New Beta - March 7th (3/7)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

Thanks for the patience as we move through this multi-step transition towards release. The SQL conversion was a biggie, and was largely responsible for the many bugs reported. In any case, I'd say most if not all aspects of that are fixed now. I've also taken the time to tackle a few more big issues, and do a little bit of balance.

Anyways, here's the changelog. I'm not going to touch balance again until after the next official release, so bugfixes are the order of the day. I'm also waiting on word from putmalk that his c4df changes are gold - once we've got that locked down, and this gets a day or two of testing, we'll see the next version.

Bugfixes and QoL:

• Fixed a bunch more bugs, typos, and SQL conversion errors (thanks everyone for the reports!)
• Worked a bit more on diplo AI - should spam trade-related messages a little less
• Upped AI aggression a little bit (still using personality model) - made it a little more aggressive if it suits their interests
• Fixed a few other errors and quirks
• More tactical bugfixes and optimizations from ilteroi
• Incorporated VMC v74 events and 100s XP calculation model
• QoL improvements for interface and religion overview (tooltips etc.)
• Worked on some nature plot yield stuff for JFD
• Fixed some caching quirks and issues

Completely restructured the beliefclasses model (this has been a long time 'todo' for me): formerly, the DLL only checked for founder rights in some areas, and majority rights elsewhere, and pantheon here, and reformation there...it was chaotic and it wasn't modder friendly (as many beliefs simply didn't trigger if their founder status was changed, and vice-versa). So...I made it so that ALL belief checks related to player-level belief abilities look your founded religion first, and then (if that doesn't exist) your majority religion second. From here, exceptions for founders and reformations are considered (and I can add more exceptions if needed).

Exceptions:
City-specific beliefs, tile yields, buildings enabled, and faith purchases for non-GP units still look at the local religious majority.

The change: founder and reformation beliefs are now both locked to the founding player. If, however, the holy city is lost, founder/reformation beliefs are transferred to the owning player. This differs from the old model, in that founder beliefs always stayed with the founder (or simply disappeared if the holy city was lost), and were never fully transferred (or were transferred piecemeal). This is a buff to religion in part (as reformations are now unique to the founder), but the fact that they can change hands is much more dangerous.

The good: All 'national' religion yields/bonuses are now applied through your capital (while a pantheon) or your holy city (if a full-fledged religion) instead of being lost to the warp. So while the yields remain the same, they have the potential to increase based on city buildings, policies, etc. They are also, therefore, applied to city yields for things such as % conversions into science, etc.

In short: Religious belief bonuses are now standardized to look at founder status first, then majority, Reformations and Founder beliefs are founder-exclusive, and national yields are funneled through your holy city/capital.

I tried to test most configurations of this, though some may have slipped through.

General Balance:

• Base faith needed for great prophet increased to 600 (was 500) - we'll start seeing ~0AD religon foundings now, which is intended
• Rebalanced tech costs upwards quite a bit (but reduced gamespeed % scaling a bit to compensate) - AI was regularly hitting Modern ~ 1750-1800!

Building Balance:

• Palace/Doge's Palace gain: +1 science per 3 citizens (buffs tradition a little, helps with stagnant science, and incentivizes more fleixble early tech strategies)
• Market provides +2 Gold (Was +1), Bazaar +1 Faith restored, gold at +4
• Flipped freshwater status of Baths/Gardens - makes more sense (baths without fresh water?) and buffs river cities slightly (as they can get baths a little earlier, and more cheaply)
• Fixed a bunch of missing SQL yields.

Improvement Balance:

• Base academy science reduced by 1 (now +6)

Unit Balance:

• Fixed some missing promotions/abilities, and some aberrant CS/RCS values.
• Musketeer gains 'Esprit de Corps' promotion, which gives it a 20% chance to cause an enemy unit to retreat when hit by a ranged attack. Deals 50% more damage if the unit cannot retreat (could be fun, could be awful, we'll see) - loses ZoC promotion

UA Balance:

• Brazilian UA: 33% Tourism, 33% of Culture converted to Tourism (was 25/50) - why? Was simply overperforming in the culture game at the expense of the rest of the UA. Rather than nerf golden ages further, I'd rather nerf Brazil a little.
• Korean Science from specialists reduced by 1 (now +1, was +2)
• Reduced Arabia UA science to +1 (was +2)
• Kuna Science now +1 (was +2)
• Walls of Babylon now +1 science per 10 citizens (was +1 per 5)
• Rebalanced Celtic pantheons dealing with science a little (see civilopedia)
• Fixed some missing elements
• Hunnic UA now affects armored units as well as mounted melee (capture-tanks!)

Version is not savegame compatible (due to continued work on caching model).

Online as of 11:15pm EST.

Downloads Folder

Things to look out for: AI quirks (always), UI quirks/issues, missing yields/abilities, misbehaving cached yields or beliefs, and incorrect text.

Known bugs:

• UI tooltips for culture showing yields, but not % modifiers.
• 'Decline of your pantheon' notification popup no longer needed (as religion no longer decays like that).

Small request: if someone could help me organize all the patchnotes since the last official version, that'd be awesome. What a chore!

Cheers,
Gazebo

 

[Kolaris]

Flipped freshwater status of Baths/Gardens - makes more sense (baths without fresh water?) and buffs river cities slightly (as they can get baths a little earlier, and more cheaply)

Bit of a nerf to Hanging Gardens though, since you're locked into the lesser +20% building even if you have access to fresh water. I like the idea however.

 

[Gazebo]

Bit of a nerf to Hanging Gardens though, since you're locked into the lesser +20% building even if you have access to fresh water. I like the idea however.

A little, yeah. Could make it give baths, though (to be fair) it is the the strongest of the three ancient policy wonders at this point.

G

 

[supracseduch]

I'm loving the changes to founder beliefs already. Going military is much more interesting now. This could be just what the Zulu needed to become less one-dimensional. Just one question: Who enhances/reforms the religions corresponding to captured holy cities? The original founder or the capturer?

Also, I appreciate the extra science from Palace a lot, as well as the other science changes. Great work as always.

 

[ExpiredReign]

The change: founder and reformation beliefs are now both locked to the founding player. If, however, the holy city is lost, founder/reformation beliefs are transferred to the owning player. This differs from the old model, in that founder beliefs always stayed with the founder (or simply disappeared if the holy city was lost), and were never fully transferred (or were transferred piecemeal). This is a buff to religion in part (as reformations are now unique to the founder), but the fact that they can change hands is much more dangerous.

This alone is worth the upgrade to the next beta. Well done.

 

[Acken]

Ok ill start a new game you can observe and ask questions on chat http://www.twitch.tv/rezoacken

 

[zeta]

Musketeer gains 'Esprit de Corps' promotion, which gives it a 20% chance to cause an enemy unit to retreat when hit by a ranged attack. Deals 50% more damage if the unit cannot retreat (could be fun, could be awful, we'll see) - loses ZoC promotion

So, this is like Winged Hussars? Hmmh, let's see how this works... Kinda doubtful thou.

 

[Funak]

Musketeer gains 'Esprit de Corps' promotion, which gives it a 20% chance to cause an enemy unit to retreat when hit by a ranged attack. Deals 50% more damage if the unit cannot retreat (could be fun, could be awful, we'll see) - loses ZoC promotion

Really....?
Not only did give them a promotion that's terrible, but you also removed their +1 movement and +15% bonus when attacking? Can't you at least discuss these things before bulldozing them through?

UA Balance:
Brazilian UA: 33% Tourism, 33% of Culture converted to Tourism (was 25/50) - why? Was simply overperforming in the culture game at the expense of the rest of the UA. Rather than nerf golden ages further, I'd rather nerf Brazil a little.

Sounds good.

Korean Science from specialists reduced by 1 (now +1, was +2)
Reduced Arabia UA science to +1 (was +2)
Kuna Science now +1 (was +2)
Walls of Babylon now +1 science per 10 citizens (was +1 per 5)

Sounds extremely boring.
The walls I really don't care about, but 1/10pop on an ancient era building just looks silly.
The Mayan and Arabian things just looks really awful. I don't care if it plays well, it looks boring as all hell. I don't feel the slightest pull towards ever playing them again, that's how boring +1 numbers look.
If having science on stuff just doesn't work anymore, then remove the science, add something else instead.

Rebalanced Celtic pantheons dealing with science a little (see civilopedia)

Sounds good

Hunnic UA now affects armored units as well as mounted melee (capture-tanks!)

Only really natural.

 

[Funak]

Buglist so far:
God of Commerce provides no yields at all from city-connections, at least those formed by rivers for Askia (I'm reloading to a previous save and picking another pantheon, so I'll never see if building actual roads works)
God of All Creation provides no happiness as far as I can see, culture and faith seems to work fine however.
Note: God of All Creation happiness actually started working once I founded a religion, really weird.
I can't generate great general points at all.
Knowledge through Devotion doesn't work.
Cathedral of S:t Basil provides a free social policy once again.
University of Sankore provides its old +1 pop to missionaries effect
I'm guessing quite a few wonders fell back into old habits, would take a look at most of them if I was you:

 

[Gazebo]

I'm loving the changes to founder beliefs already. Going military is much more interesting now. This could be just what the Zulu needed to become less one-dimensional. Just one question: Who enhances/reforms the religions corresponding to captured holy cities? The original founder or the capturer?

Also, I appreciate the extra science from Palace a lot, as well as the other science changes. Great work as always.

The 'under the hood' changes related to reform/enhance are still tied to a religion's actual founder (because of how data is set on founding). I can try and fiddle with this some, but it's a bear. Right now, the changes about relate just to the beliefs one chosen, not the process of choosing.

Not only did give them a promotion that's terrible, but you also removed their +1 movement and +15% bonus when attacking? Can't you at least discuss these things before bulldozing them through?

Beta. I'd rather throw in a change, see what sticks, and go from there, thanks. If I waited for the end of every discussion we'd still be working on policy trees.

Besides, someone requested a ranged variant of the hussar's promotion some time ago (it was on my requests list), so it felt like a good time to knock that out.

G

 

[joosegoose25]

A little, yeah. Could make it give baths, though (to be fair) it is the the strongest of the three ancient policy wonders at this point.

G

For what it's worth, I'd much rather see it nerfed by removing some of the food than by locking you into the weaker building. It feels kind of cheap.

Downloading and installing now, can't wait to try out these religion changes.

 

[Funak]

For what it's worth, I'd much rather see it nerfed by removing some of the food than by locking you into the weaker building. It feels kind of cheap.

Not as much locking, as it forces you to just sell the building off once the wonder is done.

 

[joosegoose25]

Not as much locking, as it forces you to just sell the building off once the wonder is done.

Either way, I don't like it. It'd be like getting a free regular building even though you have a unique version of it. It's more fun to just grant the UB than make you sell off the regular one.

 

[Funak]

Either way, I don't like it. It'd be like getting a free regular building even though you have a unique version of it. It's more fun to just grant the UB than make you sell off the regular one.

Hey, I don't like it either. I don't like the change between the garden and the bath at all, mostly because the garden is already established.

 

[Acken]

Great general points are not generated

 

[Dallandra]

I am pretty glad that I've had no time to try any of the new betas lately. Except for the "under the hood" changes, literally every other change so far has made me want to play with CBP less and less.

I was against the science changes from the very beginning and we're starting to see now why. There's a massive tail on it, which is slowly gutting every other science-related ability (1 per 10 pop from the Babylon wall now? Really? Might as well not exist). You can say "oh, it all just needs a bit of tweaking!", but this is all tweaking that was not needed in the first place. The one game I did manage to start up was slow and boring and the science changes simply don't scale well with higher game speeds in the slightest. The fact that you just added at least some scaling science back onto the palace so early game doesn't slow to a crawl is all the confirmation that I need to see that this isn't really working.

The changes to wonder unlocking would've alleviated the slow science progression (and thus slow GAME progression in general) a bit, but then that got murdered again by being tied to techs once again. It was discussed before that the idea behind #policy requirements was as an alternate way of unlocking wonders for low-tech civs or games, now it's just yet another restriction on them that just hinders everyone instead of giving more gameplay choices.

I'm not going to comment on the ranged unit changes, since I didn't get to try those yet, but I agree with Funak's comment that the Musketeer got the worst possible promotion there. The last thing I want my ranged units to do is randomly chase targets away. That should be not a thing at all or controlled, happening every X attacks or just being guaranteed. As it is though, that promotion could make an otherwise good unit useless.

 

[bane_]

Small request: if someone could help me organize all the patchnotes since the last official version, that'd be awesome. What a chore!

Do you need the changes to reflect which patch they are from?
If not, I'm almost finished with the first part, then I'm onto updating similar entries and deleting generic modifications ('Fixed bugs from github requests', or whatever).

 

[Natura]

I don't know about the musketeer change, but I would say that if any ranged unit really fit with the idea of forcing retreating, it would be machine guns.

G, might it be easier to just make the Musketeer the Tercio replacement for the French? With generic Musketmen backing them up?

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Bit of a nerf to Hanging Gardens though, since you're locked into the lesser +20% building even if you have access to fresh water. I like the idea however.

Can't you just sell the building and build a Baths once you get the tech?

I like that it feels my feedback was implemented, I completely disagree with Funak about +1s being boring. With the current system those decreases are necessary I think. Nice changes all around except for the Musketeer - I don't think the promotion is weak (+50% damage most of the time can't be weak), I just preferred the old Musketeer.

 

[Senteliks]

I am not only one who will have say in this but nerfing Brazil won't make it more appealing or interesting. That's main beef with it, not it'soverperformance because of it's UA.