New Beta Version - February 22nd (2/22)

[Gazebo]

Hey all,

What's that? 5 days since the last incident beta? Well, I guess it is time for a new one, then! And oh man, what a beta this is! I'm excited. This beta includes a feature change that I've had in the pipe since I was working on CSD, but I just never got around to doing. But it is here now, so let's take a look!

Bugfixes:

• Updated to latest EUI (1.28e) due to bugs in previous EUI and fixed some EUI quirks. Is bundled with installer, but if not using installer, please download latest EUI before using new CBP set (link here).
• Fixed a few smaller bugs here and there (reported and unreported)
• Tactical and pathfinder updates from ilteroi
• More AI improvements and optimizations (many smaller tweaks and changes)
• Updated Major-Minor Diplo AI (operates on a similar system to what is used for Major civs, though it is much less robust in order to be more efficient)
• Worked on MP support for active diplomacy a bit more, but it is not ready for prime-time (do not enable Active Diplomacy for modpacks yet)

New Things:

• New art for steam mill from Wodhann
• Added plague and river tile stuff for JFD
• Naval vessels can no longer fire from forts and cities
• Broken Promises (back-stabs) no longer a perma-malus - now expire after x number of turns for both the target and the world. Civs that like you more forgive you more quickly for these broken promises, whereas civs with a very low opinion of you will never forget it (and will continue to tell the world how dumb you are).
• Capturing or killing civilian units during war now incurs a diplo penalty - at a high enough level, the penalty becomes global (i.e. its seen as a war crime). Penalty decays over time, but very slowly (if at all) if the civ hates you.

Overhauled quests and quest-reward system for CSs

• Now there are a bunch of different types of rewards that can happen for each quest type. Almost every quest type has a unique reward tied to it!
• Rewards include food, production, faith, gold, golden age points, great people points, experience for units, tourism...it's quite extensive!
• The bonuses from all quests change based on personality, era, relationship (pledge of protection) and the patronage opener, as well as a small randomized value, so no two quests are ever truly alike.
• For example, Militaristic Minors give more Great General Points if you clear a Barbarian Camp than a Friendly Civ, however Religious Minors give more Faith for spreading your religion than Mercantile ones!
• Rewrote CS tooltip system for quests to make it easy to see what you will receive from completing quests - rewards info appears in notification, and on hover over quest icons on CSs.
• The new quests (and quest rewards) only apply to the CBP, and the changes include modifications for CSD quests.
• Removed CSD penalty for failing quests (less stick, more carrot!)
• Removed Global City-State quest from Historic Events category (tourism as reward bundled into change above...)
• Adjusted CS quest spawning pre-reqs for global yield contests (won't happen in early game now) and great person spawn (quest won't spawn if you can't possibly make the unit type in your capital)
• Map-targeting quests (i.e. camps, digs, etc.) can only be given out one at a time by a CS - this is to help control where the highlighter sends you when you click on a CS quest icon (and to prevent a bloat of 'go here' quests).
• Note for modders: I co-opted the 'SmallAwards' table and turned that into a minor civ awards table. You can find this table, and the information I added to it, in the MinorCivQuestRewards.xml. All influence, duration, and reward values are now stored here, so the old global defines no longer matter. All new quest rewards are in this table, and can be edited by you as you see fit. Please, however, do not edit the order or number of small awards here, as that'll break the link in the DLL!

5 new CS quests, and 1 tweaked (unused) vanilla quest:

• Reveal an area of the map (chooses a distant coastal plot on a separate landmass that's un-revealed and gives you a reward for revealing most or all of the landmass). Encourages and rewards exploration on maps with multiple continents.
• Construct x buildings in all cities. Encourages infrastructure.
• Successfully conduct x espionage missions against another player (advanced actions and techs both apply). Encourages targeting a specific player.
• Successfully coup in a city-state (failing fails the quest). Encourages CS coups.
• Acquire a target city either through trade or conquest. Good for warmongers!
• Settle a war between two CSs. Variation on the unused vanilla 'Kill CS' quest - this time it is a global quest, and the CSs are at war with each other. This is a really unique quest, in that, once one DOWs the other, you'll get a quest from each, with variable rewards. So it is both a global and a dual quest, and the rewards are personalized. They'll actually fight, too, and may conquer the other during the allotted time. Hooray for cabinet wars! The CSs won't make peace until the quest is over. Quest only possible if neither CS party is allied to a major (no proxy wars for allied CSs). Can be solved by conquering either CS (you get the bonus provided by one or the other, depending on which you conquer), or by becoming the ally of both, thus granting you both bonuses!

Balance:

• Arabian UA now +3 Science (was +2)
• Venice can now purchase plots in puppeted cities
• Hanging Gardens now +10 food (Was +6)

Version affects all files (so download everything in link below, or just the auto-installer if using that). Is not savegame compatible with saves from previous betas.

Beta Folder

New version online as of 10:00pm EST.

Cheers,
Gazebo

 

[Wario Mario]

Overhauled quests and quest-reward system for CSs
Now there are a bunch of different types of rewards that can happen for each quest type. Almost every quest type has a unique reward tied to it!
Rewards include food, production, faith, gold, golden age points, great people points, experience for units, tourism...it's quite extensive!
The bonuses from all quests change based on personality, era, relationship (pledge of protection) and the patronage opener, as well as a small randomized value, so no two quests are ever truly alike.
For example, Militaristic Minors give more Great General Points if you clear a Barbarian Camp than a Friendly Civ, however Religious Minors give more Faith for spreading your religion than Mercantile ones!
Rewrote CS tooltip system for quests to make it easy to see what you will receive from completing quests - rewards info appears in notification, and on hover over quest icons on CSs.
The new quests (and quest rewards) only apply to the CBP, and the changes include modifications for CSD quests.
Removed CSD penalty for failing quests (less stick, more carrot!)
Removed Global City-State quest from Historic Events category (is bundled into change below...)
Adjusted CS quest spawning pre-reqs for global yield contests (won't happen in early game now) and great person spawn (quest won't spawn if you can't possibly make the unit type in your capital)
Map-targeting quests (i.e. camps, digs, etc.) can only be given out one at a time by a CS - this is to help control where the highlighter sends you when you click on a CS quest icon (and to prevent a bloat of 'go here' quests).

Wow... I didn't even think most of this was possible!

Quick question: if I use any mods that add more city states, would it conflict with these improvements?

 

[Gazebo]

Wow... I didn't even think most of this was possible!

Quick question: if I use any mods that add more city states, would it conflict with these improvements?

Should be 100% compatible. If the mod adds new traits or personalities, they won't use the personality/trait modifiers in the new quest algorithm, but everything else will operate normally (bonuses from protection, friendship, patronage, etc.). The changes affect quests, not CSs, and quests are hard-coded in the DLL.

G

 

[VampireSeraphin]

Naval vessels can no longer fire from forts and cities

Why this change?

1st, there is plenty of historical precedent for warships fighting from within a port. Second, this means if you are building a ship in a city and it completes while surrounded it can't do anything. Last, this does not seem like a balance issue since you can only ever put 1 ship in the city.

 

[Funak]

Removed Global City-State quest from Historic Events category (tourism as reward bundled into change above...)

That's a pretty massive nerf to Arabia, even with the buffed science.

Capturing or killing civilian units during war now incurs a diplo penalty - at a high enough level, the penalty becomes global (i.e. its seen as a war crime). Penalty decays over time, but very slowly (if at all) if the civ hates you.

I really hope Civilian doesn't include missionaries, diplomats, great diplomats, great generals/admirals or Assyrian Siege-towers. Those units are actively attacking you and should not be counted as civilians.



Also, I was just about to go to sleep, and you drop a new version on me? You're evil.

 

[Gazebo]

Why this change?

1st, there is plenty of historical precedent for warships fighting from within a port. Second, this means if you are building a ship in a city and it completes while surrounded it can't do anything. Last, this does not seem like a balance issue since you can only ever put 1 ship in the city.

Because it was an attack without the potential for retaliation. It wasn't a garrison, so no damage there, and it behaved oddly with melee units attacking forts/cities. It was just all around an exploitable and odd quirk of the 1upt system.

G

 

[Gazebo]

That's a pretty massive nerf to Arabia, even with the buffed science.



I really hope Civilian doesn't include missionaries, diplomats, great diplomats, great generals/admirals or Assyrian Siege-towers. Those units are actively attacking you and should not be counted as civilians.



Also, I was just about to go to sleep, and you drop a new version on me? You're evil.

Re: Arabia, it may be, which is actually nice, because it frees us up to increase the base yields (slowly) on the UA.

Civilians includes all civilian units right now, though I intend to add discretionary logic at a later date.

G

 

[Funak]

Civilians includes all civilian units right now, though I intend to add discretionary logic at a later date.

I gave up immortalit... I mean sleep, for this?

 

[Gazebo]

I gave up immortalit... I mean sleep, for this?

Well that's your call, of course.

G

 

[VampireSeraphin]

Because it was an attack without the potential for retaliation. It wasn't a garrison, so no damage there, and it behaved oddly with melee units attacking forts/cities. It was just all around an exploitable and odd quirk of the 1upt system.

G

Why not just make them take damage like the garrison? Is there some sort of code conflict?

If not, I'd still argue that it's not a problem, because the risks of putting a ship in a city are non-trivial. It only takes one or two enemy ships to block your ship into the city generally, where it cannot escape if the city falls. Generally it takes 5-6 melee units to trap a land unit in a city like that.

 

[IcyAngel]

Hmm, the Hanging Gardens now give +10 culture along with the +10 food.
Quite a bargain!

 

[jpaolini]

I like the Broken Promise decay and the war Crime mechanic for civilians.

I'm excited to try out the new quests.

>Naval vessels can no longer fire from forts and cities
That one is going to hurt, but I support it for accuracy.

With every update, I'm ever more impressed with the depth of the Mod. This new quests will be fun.

Thanks CPP team!

 

[phantomaxl1207]

Hmm, the Hanging Gardens now give +10 culture along with the +10 food.
Quite a bargain!

And still no Parthenon buffs

 

[Gazebo]

Why not just make them take damage like the garrison? Is there some sort of code conflict?

If not, I'd still argue that it's not a problem, because the risks of putting a ship in a city are non-trivial. It only takes one or two enemy ships to block your ship into the city generally, where it cannot escape if the city falls. Generally it takes 5-6 melee units to trap a land unit in a city like that.

Cities can have one garrison only, and cities/forts are now considered 'safe harbors' in that regard. This is the new normal.

G

 

[Funak]

Well that's your call, of course.

G

You know I'm just messing with you.

By the way how is our floating gardens and longhouse rework going?



The diplomod for capturing civilian units "You captured our civilian units" show up on civs other than the one who's civilians you captured (the penalty is pretty massive as well, -50 for the target and -16 for the rest). I'm kinda fine with the penalty, but I'm not fine with the wording, "You captured OUR units" should probably only apply to the actual target.

 

[phantomaxl1207]

I can see what Units CS can gift, (Companion Cavalry) in the Tech Tree. Also using ExCE by the way. Also the Hanging Gardens buff, noted above!

Also seeing some nice changes to the UI here.

 

[IcyAngel]

And still no Parthenon buffs

Parthenon...? Never heard of it!

 

[Gazebo]

I can see what Units CS can gift, (Companion Cavalry) in the Tech Tree. Also using ExCE by the way. Also the Hanging Gardens buff, noted above!

Also seeing some nice changes to the UI here.

That's intentional (I put them back in tree so users would know that the units hadn't disappeared, and you'd know what techs were required for them to be available.)

By the way how is our floating gardens and longhouse rework going?



The diplomod for capturing civilian units "You captured our civilian units" show up on civs other than the one who's civilians you captured (the penalty is pretty massive as well, -50 for the target and -16 for the rest). I'm kinda fine with the penalty, but I'm not fine with the wording, "You captured OUR units" should probably only apply to the actual target.

I haven't done much balance work lately, as you can tell. Mainly nailing down these last few feature changes.

I'll look at text issue later - there is code for 'other players' in the text, but the personal text seems to be firing on the global malus.

G

 

[Funak]

I haven't done much balance work lately, as you can tell. Mainly nailing down these last few feature changes.

It wasn't a balance-change, it was removing terrain-requirement

 

[darko82]

How many quests are there or quest types, I wonder?