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New Beta Version - March 14th (3-14)

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Gazebo, Mar 14, 2019.

  1. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    So, goodbye to the city happiness tooltip and expected happiness gain on growth? Or are you talking just about the local happiness of luxuries?

    Isn't it too complex? Two handicaps varying with every difficulty level...

    If I have more happy faces than unhappy faces, then I have more than 100% happiness?
    A citizen must be happy/unhappy or can it be neutral?
    In the first case, happy faces = Total population - unhappy faces, so happiness meter would be:
    (Total population - unhappy faces) / Unhappy faces.
    So having 0 unhappy faces makes happiness infinite!
    There must be something I'm not understanding.

    Forgot to add: please move unhappiness from puppets to global.
     
  2. Rhys DeAnno

    Rhys DeAnno Prince

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    Do you mean Happy Faces * 100 / (Happy + Unhappy Faces)

    The other thing is over 100 when Happy > Unhappy. Also, is the patch going to post today, or not until later this week?
     
  3. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    He said evenly, not secuentially. So, if you have 5 global happiness and 5 cities, you need to reach 10 global happiness before any city notices.
     
  4. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    The capital receives a need increase of +15% but also gain at the same time flat happiness to solve early unhappiness problems.

    Couldnt, for simplicity, a need decrease or the removal of the extra need modifier in the capital have the same effect as the flat happiness? The need reduction would diminish naturally over time, cause other effects will be stronger than the initially reduction.
     
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  5. Omen of Peace

    Omen of Peace Prince

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    Not sure if the feedback is interesting since we've already moved past it, but I had some happiness issues in the last beta, with a 9-city Progress Poland on Immortal. There were transitory, but I experienced some downsides of the system:
    - when my Heroic Epic city was unhappy, I had to produce units elsewhere (overall I stayed above 75% at almost all times, so global happiness wasn't a problem).
    - contrary to what has been said by others, I had to do more micro-management in this particular game (not so in other games) to check regularly which city was unhappy and make sure it wasn't tasked with producing a unit.
    I mention these because I rarely had swings in previous versions (except 1 in September IIRC and the February one), so this was something of a regression for me.

    And sometimes it felt like a well-developed city was unhappy while a similar one elsewhere wasn't.
    What are the right logs to provide if we think there might be a problem?


    Also, regarding War Weariness: I want it to be more impactful again, but we should be wary of the "double-penalty" effect if both unhappiness and war weariness impact unit production.
    Ultimately, once the system matures, perhaps we can roll the WW effects into happiness altogether, since they're becoming more alike?

    By the way, it has been mentioned already that Unhappiness should also include gold costs of the units for which it slows down production.
    Finally, the current topic I take to heart: will Unhappiness stop impacting trade units/workers/work boats in the next version?
     
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Local happiness stays - the local luxury bonus is what’s gone.

    100% is cap. For now. 0 unhappy = 100% happy automatically.

    Puppet happiness needs to stay local.

    No. Evenly means 6 happiness and 5 cities = 5 cities get +1 and the capital gets a remainder. If 7 happiness then the capital and the second city would get +1. Etc.

    The small happiness handicap in the capital is a control for pop bumps etc. since happy cities can float unhappy cities having a capital with excess happiness is better than a happy not making unhappiness. If that makes sense.

    Also the 15% is largely for late game.

    G
     
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  7. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    For last question, yes. Military only.

    And I want the gold option to remain flat. Unhappy civs that wish to buy an army should be able to make that choice.
     
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  8. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    :cry:

    That's a relief.

    Still don't get it.
    0 unhappy --> Global 100% happiness.
    1 unhappy, 25 happy (population 26) --> 25*100 / 1 = 2500 % ???
    Great!
     
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  9. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    5 happy and 0 unhappy = 5 * 100 (500) / 0 (min 1) = 500, capped at 100.

    5 happy and 2 unhappy = 250 (capped at 100)

    4 happy and 6 unhappy = 66.667%

    G
     
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  10. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    This looks very very forgiving. Happiness does not go under 100% unless there are at least 50% people in your empire unhappy.
     
  11. BiteInTheMark

    BiteInTheMark Emperor

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    Its a comparison of the positive happiness and negativ happiness. Neutral population didnt count. Having 5 happy and 4 unhappy gives the same result, no matter if you have 20 or 100 population.
     
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  12. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Bite is correct - neutral parties don't matter, only the raw happiness being produced by a city, and the raw unhappiness being produced by a city. Those are added together at the empire level, and the fraction is your approval.

    G
     
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  13. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Ok. Finally. I was a little dumb tonight.
     
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  14. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

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    Why cap at 100%? I would like to see how much of a buffer I have before I have more unhappiness than happiness. Capping at 100% also misleads the player into thinking it’s actually the percentage happy/total pop that we were using before.
     
  15. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    Because you cannot logically have higher than 100% approval. This isn't North Korea.

    G
     
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  16. DonStill

    DonStill Chieftain

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    Question, the AI seems to go bankrupt often and sell everything down their walls for some reason. And apparently, wonders too. Is this normal behavior in that they aren't managing their money well or just a bug?
     
  17. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    I’ve never seen this. You sure? The AI doesn’t sell buildings to reduce debt. They only sell if razing.

    G
     
  18. Stalker0

    Stalker0 Baller Magnus

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    1) I can press control growth, telling my people to stop making babies.
    2) I choose policies and ideologies, so I literally tell my people what to think.
    3) Playing diety, I can easily have horseman going again modern armor.

    Wait....are you sure this isn't north korea? :)
     
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  19. doublex55

    doublex55 Prince

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    This isn’t approval though. This is happy/unhappy. Approval is happy/population. You can clearly logically have over 100% because that’s the way the math works out.
     
  20. Bhawb

    Bhawb Prince

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    The 100% cap IS the empire-wide approval rating, which cannot go above 100%.
     

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