Yuri2356
Test Screening
Perhaps a golden age should allow trait change, that is when a Civ tends to be the most open to change.
New Civilizations
- Thread starter Corey
- Start date
I disagree, a Golden Age is usually when a Civ is hitting its stride in a particular area, not when they change their focus altogether. Now, in rare opportunities like the discovery of the New World, many Civs could be described as having changed their focus upon entering a Golden Age, but usually a Civ only steers a new course when its old way of life is threatened.
Yuri2356
Test Screening
Maby at the end of the GA then? That would imply that the force that caused their golden age to end changed their way of life as well.
I'm pretty much just dead-set against trait changes. I could be persuaded to advocate a system in which each trait could be guided indirectly by your playstyle and world conditions to morph logically into another trait (ie, Expansionism could become militarism as your rivals claim more land and you emphasize your military) but I don't like the idea of just getting carte blanche in choosing whatever your traits are for each era.
But I'm just being argumentative, I suppose. If one supported trait changes, than yes, the end of a Golden Age seems like a good time to do it, as the end of every historical GA I can think of was forced by national disaster the people had to respond to. The Spanish Armada being destroyed, ending Spains GA, the introduction of disease, ending the Iroquois' GA, the Europeans strangling Islamic trade, ending the Arab's GA. . . you get the idea. Each of these things precipitated in a direct change in the way the affected society dealt with the world. The Spanish became less Militaristic and more Commercial, the Iroquois became less Agricultural and more Commercial, the Muslims became less Commercial and more Militaristic. . .
However, this shouldn't be the ONLY opportunity for trait change, as some societies experience trait change when old constraits are removed, rather than new ones being enforced. The Romans became more Scientific and less Militaristic once they didn't have the Carthaginians to worry about (though, yes, they did continue with a strong military, it was no longer the single greatest point of Roman pride). The Spanish became more Expansionist and less Religious once the New World was opened up to them.
However, this shouldn't be the ONLY opportunity for trait change, as some societies experience trait change when old constraits are removed, rather than new ones being enforced. The Romans became more Scientific and less Militaristic once they didn't have the Carthaginians to worry about (though, yes, they did continue with a strong military, it was no longer the single greatest point of Roman pride). The Spanish became more Expansionist and less Religious once the New World was opened up to them.
tenaciousH
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2004
- Messages
- 3
first, macedonia didnt really have much unique culture and the lakotas arent by definition a civ because they were nomadic, and bantu, scotland, sweden, denmark, are already represented in zulu, celts, scandinavia. But then again, if zulu are civ, then u could say all this other crap is civ too
Thorfin39
Chieftain
If you are playing the world and want it historically accurate, then there are plenty of arguments against inclusion of countries, civs and cultures..
For me, the fun is playing a civ on a random map and see what happens.. I tend to "create" the Irish (Brian Boru), Scottish (William Wallace) and Canadians (Pierre Trudeau) often, just for a change of pace.. I have even played a civ called the Michiganians and flirted with the Klingons..
I enjoy historically accurate games, but its not the only way I play the game..
For me, the fun is playing a civ on a random map and see what happens.. I tend to "create" the Irish (Brian Boru), Scottish (William Wallace) and Canadians (Pierre Trudeau) often, just for a change of pace.. I have even played a civ called the Michiganians and flirted with the Klingons..
I enjoy historically accurate games, but its not the only way I play the game..
sir_schwick
Archbishop of Towels
Here is the new GA system. I have not determined triggers, but each cycle will have three components. Golden Age - This is the first part and you get a bonus depending on duration. Dark AGe - This is right after the end of the GA and you get penalties depedning on the duration of the GA. Normal Age - This is the time when no new GA can occur after the DA.
Whenever a GA could start, you get to choose the duration. Of course you can only choose durations that will go completely through the end fo the game.
Ultra Short - 5 Turn GA, 7 Turn DA, 12 Turn NA = 24 Total Turns
GA: All cities generate an extra unit of trade. Corruption reduced by 25% in all cities. +1 movement on roads.
DA: All cities lose a unit of trade. - 1 Happiness from Markeplaces if they generate any.
Short - 10 Turn GA, 15 Turn DA, 25 Turn NA = 50 Total Turns
GA:All cities generate (1/2/4) extra trade and 1 extra shield. Corruption reduced by 25% in all cities. +1 Movement on roads and water. -1 N(see my post above) for a single unit.
DA: All cities lose (1/2/4) trade. Corruption increases by 25% in all cities. -1 Happiness from Marketplaces if they generate any.
Moderate - 20 Turn GA, 30 Turn DA, 50 Turn NA = 100 Total Turns
GA: All cities generate +1 trade in squares that have them, (1/2/4) shields. Corruption reduced by 40% in all cities. +1 Movement on road, +2 on sea. -2 N for one unit, and -1 N for two more. +1 Happiness for first luxury. Worker rate increased by 50%
DA: All cities lose (2/2/4) trade and a shield. Corruption increased by 25% in all cities. -1 Movement on sea. +1 N(really +3 N) for former -2 N unit. - 2 Happiness on luxuries if they generate any. Worker rate 75%.
Long - 40 Turn GA, 60 Turn DA, 100 Turn NA = 200 Total Turns
GA: All squares generate +50% trade and +1 shields. Any food squares with 2 food or more generate +1 food. Corruption reduced by 60% in all cities. +2 Movement on road, +4 on Sea. -4 N for two units, -2 N for six, -1 N for the rest. Double happiness on 4th and 5th luxury. +(1/2/4) research beakers per city. Worker rate doubled.
DA: Allc ities lose one trade per square and (2/2/4) shields. Food production is -1 for all squares over 2. Corruption increased by 75% in all cities. -1 Movement on roads, -3 water. +2(past original discount)N for all units. 2 Unhappy citizens per city. Worker rate 50%
Ultra Long - 80 Turn GA, 120 Turn DA, 200 Turn NA = 400 Total Turns
GA: All squares generate +100% trade and +50% shields. Any food squares with 2 food or more generate +1 food. Corruption reduced by 80% in all cities. +3 Movement on road, +4 on Sea. -4 N for two units, -2 N for the rest. Double happiness on 4th through 8th luxury. +(2/3/5) research beakers per city. Worker rate tripled. +2 Happy citizens per city.
DA: Allc ities lose one trade per square and one shield per square. Food production is -1 for all squares. Corruption increased by 90% in all cities. -2 Movement on roads, -3 water. +4(past original discount)N for all units. 3 Unhappy citizens per city. Worker rate 25%.
Whenever teh DA ended, you could then change your traits.
Whenever a GA could start, you get to choose the duration. Of course you can only choose durations that will go completely through the end fo the game.
Ultra Short - 5 Turn GA, 7 Turn DA, 12 Turn NA = 24 Total Turns
GA: All cities generate an extra unit of trade. Corruption reduced by 25% in all cities. +1 movement on roads.
DA: All cities lose a unit of trade. - 1 Happiness from Markeplaces if they generate any.
Short - 10 Turn GA, 15 Turn DA, 25 Turn NA = 50 Total Turns
GA:All cities generate (1/2/4) extra trade and 1 extra shield. Corruption reduced by 25% in all cities. +1 Movement on roads and water. -1 N(see my post above) for a single unit.
DA: All cities lose (1/2/4) trade. Corruption increases by 25% in all cities. -1 Happiness from Marketplaces if they generate any.
Moderate - 20 Turn GA, 30 Turn DA, 50 Turn NA = 100 Total Turns
GA: All cities generate +1 trade in squares that have them, (1/2/4) shields. Corruption reduced by 40% in all cities. +1 Movement on road, +2 on sea. -2 N for one unit, and -1 N for two more. +1 Happiness for first luxury. Worker rate increased by 50%
DA: All cities lose (2/2/4) trade and a shield. Corruption increased by 25% in all cities. -1 Movement on sea. +1 N(really +3 N) for former -2 N unit. - 2 Happiness on luxuries if they generate any. Worker rate 75%.
Long - 40 Turn GA, 60 Turn DA, 100 Turn NA = 200 Total Turns
GA: All squares generate +50% trade and +1 shields. Any food squares with 2 food or more generate +1 food. Corruption reduced by 60% in all cities. +2 Movement on road, +4 on Sea. -4 N for two units, -2 N for six, -1 N for the rest. Double happiness on 4th and 5th luxury. +(1/2/4) research beakers per city. Worker rate doubled.
DA: Allc ities lose one trade per square and (2/2/4) shields. Food production is -1 for all squares over 2. Corruption increased by 75% in all cities. -1 Movement on roads, -3 water. +2(past original discount)N for all units. 2 Unhappy citizens per city. Worker rate 50%
Ultra Long - 80 Turn GA, 120 Turn DA, 200 Turn NA = 400 Total Turns
GA: All squares generate +100% trade and +50% shields. Any food squares with 2 food or more generate +1 food. Corruption reduced by 80% in all cities. +3 Movement on road, +4 on Sea. -4 N for two units, -2 N for the rest. Double happiness on 4th through 8th luxury. +(2/3/5) research beakers per city. Worker rate tripled. +2 Happy citizens per city.
DA: Allc ities lose one trade per square and one shield per square. Food production is -1 for all squares. Corruption increased by 90% in all cities. -2 Movement on roads, -3 water. +4(past original discount)N for all units. 3 Unhappy citizens per city. Worker rate 25%.
Whenever teh DA ended, you could then change your traits.
hmm. . . I like the idea of Dark Ages, but I think they should be triggered for a reason other than the end of a Golden Age, or many players would avoid Golden Ages altogether. I don't really see how a GA makes units go faster. . . roads in better repair? This has gone in an entirely new direction that, while interesting, is not really appropriate on this thread. Perhaps we should start a Golden Age/Dark Age/ Trait change thread?
To get crap back on track-
Tenacious H: you're right in that any nomadic group is not a Civilization. (Non-Latin speakers: the word Civilization comes form the Latin civila, which means "city". No civilas, no civilization.)
Saying the Scots are already represented by the Celts is one thing, but saying the Zulu represent the Bantu? Yes, the groups are related, but its like saying English are already represented by the Germans. However, I suppose the Bantu are a very broad group, but we definately need more African civilizations. Mali, Songhai, Ethiopia, and Ghana would all be excellent options, perhaps even Benin, Dahomey or Ashanti. Many Westerners are not acquainted with these civilizations, and, as such, think they are inconsequential. This is not so, Westerners are drilled mainly on European history, and Africa is largely neglected.
Songhai, Mali, and Ghana were all Western African trading kingdoms who, at their peak, had arguably the richest empires in the world. They inhabited much of the same territory, in different time periods. Ghana, which had already developed large, organized cities in 300 AD, began to achieve greatness in the 700's and lasted until the 11th century. It became a rich land by controlling the salt and gold trade routes along the continent, supplying the growing Muslim empire with precious metals and goods. Ghana was invaded in 1076, and fragmented soon after.
Ghana gave rise to the kingdom of Mali, which, though it lasted only a few hundred years, achieved great wealth and power. It controlled the legendary trading city of Timbuktu, and its leader Mansa Musa made a pilgrimage to Mecca and tithed enough gold and elaborate art to enrich the Arab empire.
The greatest west African empire, Songhai, followed Mali. It grew so rich off the slave trade and other industries that its tithes to Mecca literally destabilized the world's currency by devalueing the price of gold in the Islamic world and Europe. Its military, though primitive, was strong enough to resist the Europeans and Muslims, and conquer and enslave neighboring kingdoms.
Ethiopia's main bragging point is its age. It was already a rich, well-established country when the Greek culture was starting to rise, and is still a nation today. It was conquered only once, as far as I know, by Italy's fascists.
Tenacious H: you're right in that any nomadic group is not a Civilization. (Non-Latin speakers: the word Civilization comes form the Latin civila, which means "city". No civilas, no civilization.)
Saying the Scots are already represented by the Celts is one thing, but saying the Zulu represent the Bantu? Yes, the groups are related, but its like saying English are already represented by the Germans. However, I suppose the Bantu are a very broad group, but we definately need more African civilizations. Mali, Songhai, Ethiopia, and Ghana would all be excellent options, perhaps even Benin, Dahomey or Ashanti. Many Westerners are not acquainted with these civilizations, and, as such, think they are inconsequential. This is not so, Westerners are drilled mainly on European history, and Africa is largely neglected.
Songhai, Mali, and Ghana were all Western African trading kingdoms who, at their peak, had arguably the richest empires in the world. They inhabited much of the same territory, in different time periods. Ghana, which had already developed large, organized cities in 300 AD, began to achieve greatness in the 700's and lasted until the 11th century. It became a rich land by controlling the salt and gold trade routes along the continent, supplying the growing Muslim empire with precious metals and goods. Ghana was invaded in 1076, and fragmented soon after.
Ghana gave rise to the kingdom of Mali, which, though it lasted only a few hundred years, achieved great wealth and power. It controlled the legendary trading city of Timbuktu, and its leader Mansa Musa made a pilgrimage to Mecca and tithed enough gold and elaborate art to enrich the Arab empire.
The greatest west African empire, Songhai, followed Mali. It grew so rich off the slave trade and other industries that its tithes to Mecca literally destabilized the world's currency by devalueing the price of gold in the Islamic world and Europe. Its military, though primitive, was strong enough to resist the Europeans and Muslims, and conquer and enslave neighboring kingdoms.
Ethiopia's main bragging point is its age. It was already a rich, well-established country when the Greek culture was starting to rise, and is still a nation today. It was conquered only once, as far as I know, by Italy's fascists.
sir_schwick
Archbishop of Towels
Actually I will start a new thread about new GA model. Also, good points about African civilizations, many of which I was not as aware of as you are.
Francophile
Chieftain
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2004
- Messages
- 20
I think the easiest thing to do would be to have evolving names. I.E.
Anglo/Saxony-England-Great Britain/United Kindom
I'm going to start a post on this if I can't find any others
Anglo/Saxony-England-Great Britain/United Kindom
I'm going to start a post on this if I can't find any others
AtomRipper
Chieftain
how about the moors. they had a huge impact on europe and africa
Greek Stud
Prince
I really like the civs from Civ 3; I also thought it'd be cool to add on more civs.
America:
Inuit Empire
Confederate States of America
Apache
Europe:
Prussia
Poland
Austria
Soviets (Not necessary but With Conquest Civs: Georgia, Chechnya, Armenia, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Finland, Ukrainian, Serbs, Bulgars, Romanians, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Kyrgyz, Tajikis, Afghanis)
Minoans
Middle East:
Assyria
Canaan
Israel
Africa:
Ethiopia (Abyssinia)
Nubia
Mali
Ashanti Kingdom
Asia:
Siamese
Khumer
Vietnamese
Malay
Indonesian
Australia:
Aboriginies
Mauri
Polynesia
America:
Inuit Empire
Confederate States of America
Apache
Europe:
Prussia
Poland
Austria
Soviets (Not necessary but With Conquest Civs: Georgia, Chechnya, Armenia, Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Finland, Ukrainian, Serbs, Bulgars, Romanians, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Kyrgyz, Tajikis, Afghanis)
Minoans
Middle East:
Assyria
Canaan
Israel
Africa:
Ethiopia (Abyssinia)
Nubia
Mali
Ashanti Kingdom
Asia:
Siamese
Khumer
Vietnamese
Malay
Indonesian
Australia:
Aboriginies
Mauri
Polynesia
Jon Shafer
Civilization 5 Designer
How about the fungus which grew on the pans of my old roommate? They had a big impact on history and I think they'd make a good addition to the Civ lineup. But that's just IMO.
Lockesdonkey
Liberal Jihadist
That's a good list Greek Stud. I gave specifics on the African civs on the "Add Afrikaners" thread. I didn't mention the Ashanti (that was stupid of me) but I got the others down. I also added the Hausa--BIG traders in Central Africa.
Yuri2356
Test Screening
Trip said:
Throw in my pet Rabbit and the blender we got for christmas and we'll have a pretty solid lineup.Similar threads
