New Civilizations

[Licentia]

Why can't Kuwait be a civ? I mean it has oil and it caused the first Gulf War sort-of.

If it wasn't for the Gulf War and So-damn-insane's invasion, then we'd not even know where Kuwait is right now, nor would we be talking about it.

 

[Pigalle]

Now I am just going to play with the thought that Sweden would be included in Civilization IV.

Leader: Karl XII
Unique Unit: Karolin. replaces Longbowman but uses a sword, 4.1.2
Guess they should be militaristic and... perhaps seafaring...

And I know that this part of the world already is represented, no need to tell me that. I'm just pretending.

 

[Mongoloid Cow]

Furius: Australia has been independent for almost 104 years. It was the first European colony in the world to get independence peacefully.

 

[Smidgey]

If it wasn't for the Gulf War and So-damn-insane's invasion, then we'd not even know where Kuwait is right now, nor would we be talking about it.

I'm not saying Kuwait should be in the game or not, what I'm saying is that this conclusion can be drawn about almost any civilisation in this game. This is all speculative, but lets say Pizarro or Cortez had not wiped out the Incas/Aztecs, then would we think of them with such prestige? or would they be thought of as just another small native american tribe like the Haida?

This argument can be used for any civ. It all depends on the chances that a civilisation has that makes it famous and/or important.

 

[frekk]

This is all speculative, but lets say Pizarro or Cortez had not wiped out the Incas/Aztecs, then would we think of them with such prestige? or would they be thought of as just another small native american tribe like the Haida?

Definately not. They had populations in the millions, cities larger than those in Europe with massive stone monuments, and huge military forces. If they had ever got a chance to trade for gunpowder and metals, they would have been extremely powerful even after losses from smallpox. Had they not been conquered so quickly and unexpectedly, our relationship with them would bear more similarity to our relationship with, say, Japan, than the Haida. These were powerful, well-organized societies.

Groups like the Haida on the other hand lived in small coastal communities of a few hundred members, numbering only in the tens of thousands total. They did not have professional military castes, their monuments, while beautiful, were not anywhere near the same scale, they had no cities, and did not rule empires or have courts with officials.

It is like the difference between a Celtic clan like the Iceni and the entirety of the Roman empire.

Just to illustrate the difference, here are two accounts of Europeans seeing a settlement for the first time. The first account is about Reverend Johnathan Green visiting Skidegate, one of the largest Haida villages (they had no capitol):

Just before we cast anchor, we passed the village of Skidegas. To me the prospect was almost enchanting, and, more than any thing I had seen, reminded me of a civilized country. The houses, of which there are thirty or forty, appeared tolerably good, and before the door of many of them stood a large mast carved in the form of the human countenance, of the dog, wolf, etc., neatly painted.

And this is from Bernal Diaz, upon arriving at the Aztec capitol:

Then Montezuma took him by the hand and told him to look at his great city and all the other cities that were standing in the water, and the many other towns on the land round the lake, and that if he had not seen the great market place well, from where they were they could see it better.

So we stood looking about us, for that huge and cursed temple stood so high that from it one could see over every thing very well, and we saw the three causeways which led into Mexico, that is the causeway of Iztapalapa by which we had entered four days before, and that of Tacoma, and that of Tepeaquilla, and we saw fresh water that comes from Chapultepec which supplies the city, and we saw the bridges on the three causeways which were built at certain distances apart through which the water of the lake flowed in and out from one side to the other, and we beheld an that great lake a great multitude of canoes, some coming with supplies of food and others returning loaded with cargoes of merchandise; and we saw that from every house of that great city and of all the other cities that were built in the water it was impossible to pass from house to house, except by drawbridges which were made of wood or in canoes; and we saw in those cities Cues and oratories like towers and fortresses and all gleaming white, and it was a wonderful thing to behold; then the houses with flat roofs, and on the causeways other small towers and oratories which were like fortresses.

After having examined and considered all that we had seen we turned to look at the great market place and the crowds of people that were in it, some buying and others selling, so that the murmur and hum of their voices and words that they used could be heard more than a league off. Some of the soldiers among us who had been in many parts of the world, in Constantinople, and all over Italy, and in Rome, said that so large a market place and so full of people, and so well regulated and arranged, they had never be held before.

 

[CurtSibling]

Curt, that’s a little narrow-sided. I would see great marketable success to introducing a fan base’s home country into the game. There should be limits though of course, like say….Kuwait.

Haha!

It is not going to happen - The games makers have a working formulae.

They wont change that - And besides!
What is wrong with merely playing a custom civ of your own naming?

I am sure we can all spell the names of our favourite nations...???

 

[sengfossil]

I guess it would not happen to include all civs from the civ player community. Instead, I would love to see a way for a customized civ. You can give her your own name and select from the pre-defined civ-abilities according to a limited score advantages and disadvantages. (like in MOO-series).

So for example a player from "Liechtenstein" cold create a civ "Liechtenstein" what otherwise never happens.

 

[Spatula]

Definately. There should be such a thing in the editor, a menu comes up and you have to do the following things:

Civ Name
Name of Leader
Insert Pic for Leader
Traits
Colours
UU
Short biography about them

You click save and the computer tacks the information onto a 'blank civ'. Then you can share the save file, assuming people have the unit and picture.

Some of these will have to be designed yourself of course, but it would make it a hell of a lot easier to make a new civ.

 

[Kodi]

Licentia, your from chilliwack? i'm from abbotsford

Anyways, you said Australia was the first European colony to become independant without conflict... it seems particularily correct (American Revolution - US. Fights in India, both peaceful and not, etc). But how about Canada? I haven't yet learned about any conflicts concerning independance for us except for conflicts between the french and the english and americans, but thats more civil war.

 

[Licentia]

Licentia, your from chilliwack? i'm from abbotsford

Anyways, you said Australia was the first European colony to become independant without conflict... it seems particularily correct (American Revolution - US. Fights in India, both peaceful and not, etc). But how about Canada? I haven't yet learned about any conflicts concerning independance for us except for conflicts between the french and the english and americans, but thats more civil war.

I am from Chilliwack, but no I didn't say anything about Australia's independence. Was Canada truly independent in 1867? Or was it not until like the 1960's that we became fully independent?

 

[Kodi]

Oh sorry, I didn't mean you... i meant someone who posted something after you. Yea, Canada became officially independant on July 1st 18something... The 1960s is far too late

 

[Licentia]

Oh sorry, I didn't mean you... i meant someone who posted something after you. Yea, Canada became officially independant on July 1st 18something... The 1960s is far too late

Nope, 1982 we got full Independance it says: http://www.collectionscanada.ca/primeministers/h4-4024-e.html

 

[charlesolmsted]

Civ IV does not need any more civs. It should keep the same 31 from Civ III. But, it should make it possible for the player to add more civilizations without giving up any. Thus, if I want to add the Khmer, Songhai, Bantu, Mali, Uzbeks, Scythians or whoever, I can do it without having to give up an existing civilization. This would be fairly easy to do and would really open up the game for modders. All they would need to do is decide what traits to give it, and maybe make a couple of new UU's.

It would also be better for scenario builders, because then they could easily put in multiple versions of the "Greeks" in order to set up a Peloponnessian War scenario or different African tribes for a colonialism scenario.

 

[Immortal]

Yay for Social Studies teacher, allow me to explain some Canadiana to our uninformed posters:

Statute of Westminster gave Canada the ability to decide its own foreign policy, this is traditionally seen as Canada becoming truly "independent" from the crown.

At any rate, age of the civilization is irrelevent, as the cohesive German Empire of Civ III is actually the youngest of all the civs in the game.

You're crazy if you dont think the Magyars, the Polish, The Hebrews shouldn't be in the game.

 

[frekk]

You're crazy if you dont think the Magyars, the Polish, The Hebrews shouldn't be in the game.

Where do you draw the line then? What about the Sioux? How about the Huns? Seriously, you'll have to add several hundred civs to be really representative. And as far as European/Near East civs, they will be at the bottom of the list because there are already so many from that area. The Indian subcontinent alone could add about two dozen civs to the game, and that is just for the major cultures and empires. No ... the present civs are good. I'd rather they didn't waste the time, and focussed on building a better engine. People can add their own civs.

 

[Immortal]

This thread is about new civs, not improving the engine.

 

[frekk]

This thread is about new civs, not improving the engine.

Suggesting they shouldn't waste time on new civs, belongs in a "new civs" thread, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Furius]

Australia has been independent for almost 104 years. It was the first European colony in the world to get independence peacefully.

Technically I suppose it has been independant since 1900 (Or 1901?) but that amounts to the same thing as saying that the Cooks or Niue are independant. Legally they are but they still take their lead from New Zealand. Australia definetly considered themselves part of the British Empire during WWII and did not truly become independent until the Canberra Pact after World War II.

As for Civ IV civilizations, I suppose we shouldn't worry about it too much. We have a thriving modding community which will surely be eager to produce a Liechtensteini leaderhead and unique unit for no compensation whatsoever.

 

[CurtSibling]

This thread is about new civs, not improving the engine.

And it is a waste of time because you can already add any civ you want...

Also - The developers will stick with the classic civ list...

 

[Latvian "Hound"]

You click save and the computer tacks the information onto a 'blank civ'. Then you can share the save file, assuming people have the unit and picture.

Some of these will have to be designed yourself of course, but it would make it a hell of a lot easier to make a new civ.

That would be excelent if aswell could keep unlimited number of civs. Than I think in about 3 mounths here could be available save for all 200+ countrys in the world.