New Civs VOTE

[Evie]

Perhaps all of us working on mods for new civs should get our heads together and focus each on a specific part of the world (Warning : I have virtually 0 talent for drawing animation).

I'm still of the opinion that the first and foremost step in adding new civs is to increase the pull of the non-europeans region. As the game is now, there are fifty-two billions civ in Europe warring for a tiny area, while Africa, asia (India and east), America and so on which are each far larger than Europe tend to be 2/3 civs show.

Gotta fill those spot on - then you get randomness. No idea which parts of the world will be heavily colonized and which will be left empty.

My ideas anyway on which 16 civs should be included in any upcoming modpack and/or expansion.

Just general deservingness

Phoenicia (or Carthage if you must)
Hebrews - They may not make my personal top 8, but they do make the top 16. Them ,or the Israelites. Not Israeli - that's a modern nation that's causing the world WAYYYYY too large an headache at present.
Portuguesse
Ottomans
Arabs
Spanish
Dutch.

Moving outside Europe and the middle east.

Africa
Songhai Empire
Swahili Kingdoms
Ethiopia (or Axum/Aksum, or w/e)

Asia
Mongols (oh, well. Why not?)
Koreans (the third great civilization of the far east, between China and Japan).
Khmer/Thai - Either. The Khmer according to my sources were the stronger at their greatest extent, but the Thai lasted until today as a free nation. Both could do.
Indonesians - Fill up the islands.

America
Mayas
Incas

That'S that - 16 suggested civs.

 

[alpha one]

I agree with Baleog. The Vikings are a MUST in any strategy/bulilding/historical war related game.
I really miss them!

 

[sabo]

Originally posted by teturkhan
COPY OF POST ON PREVIOUS THREAD:

The Abyssinians were called the teachers of the Egyptians. How the most ANCIENT & UNCONQUERED Civilization was overlooked is beyond me. I would of went for them over Zulus ANYDAY! Some of you think the Zulus were great warriors, just ask the Italians what they thought of the Ethiopians

Look on almost any world history map, and one thing that is almost always there, neverchanging is the empire of the Abyssinians. That longetivity in itself is reason enough for them to be included in Civ3 ( I know I will add them to my edited version of the game )

teturkhan,
who did the abyssinians eventually turn into?

 

[IceBlaZe]

The Abyssinians ARE the Ethiopians of today.

 

[sabo]

Thanks Ice

 

[dunk]

I voted yes. In other words, I would like to see them all made so I can download them and play.

 

[TETurkhan]

Would they be in the category "Nubia/ another sub-saharan cýv on pan-SSAfrican civ: ?

I voted for Israel but Ethiopia is right up with them...

 

[jpowers]

Need to get me an avatar - what can I say about this thread? Himalayan cultures are on my mind - just saw the French movie 'Caravan' (also called 'Himalaya'). Fantastic film about some ethnic Tibetans who culture-flipped to Nepal and now trade salt for wheat with their Nepalese countrymen. I definitely think salt should be a resource or luxury, since the entire Western monetary system was once based on it (where do you think the word 'salary' comes from?).

 

[GhengisFarb]

I know this is going to sound stupid, but who the heck was the Queen of Sheba? Did she have something to do with Solomon?

And where the heck was Sheba? Was it a backwater kingdom or actually of some historical importance?

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by Oda Nobunaga
In other words, the choice was balanced with "Who's important in a western biased view of the world." Pathetic.

I mean, we're talking about an empire larger in size than the whole of Europe there, which was *culturaly independant* from Abyssynia (or Ethiopia if you must call it that way) Putting the two together shows just how stupid western historical bias is.

"Rome/another southern European civ" - how badly would that go as an option? Very, because the specific nations that sprang from what used to be the roman empire are known to the western world. But in Africa its alright, because everyone know no African culture ever achieved anything really worth noticing.

No, I'm not African - not in the slightest. Just a bit disgusted at the "lump Africa together, it's not important enough otherwise" notion you seem to be putting forth.

I'm sorry that you do not lýke my opinion, Oba. What you called
"a western biased view of the world" in your polemical post, was actually a set of criteria. If you really want to change my opinion, come up with another set. I am truly willing to change my mind. I've worked out already that one criterion you would use is land mass. In response I would say that this is not important in itself. Civilizations are about people, not desert, ruling one large city is more ýmportant than ruling any amount of largely uninhabited land.

 

[Zouave]

Originally posted by IceBlaZe
The Jews (Israel)?

Heh.


20% of the Israeli population is Muslim.

I think the Israelites or the Hebrews can be a Civilization, but not the "Jews".

Then how come 20% of the Knesset isn't Muslim??

The Israelites/Hebrews would be a very minor "civilization" - one that spent most of its history wandering from place to place in other peoples' countries.

Forget it.

Ethiopia/Abyssinia would be a better choice - better than the Zulus for sure.

 

[Zouave]

Oh, the CARTHAGINIANS should have been on the list. They almost beat Rome, which would have been a major change in History.

 

[IceBlaZe]

Originally posted by Zouave


Then how come 20% of the Knesset isn't Muslim??

Because a large part of the Muslims preffer to vote for Jewish parties, or not at all.

What is your point exactly?

 

[rihala]

I voted Assyrian...contemporary archaeologists have placed the hanging gardens(the only wonder not fully proved to ever have existed) in the city of Ninevah, under the tutelage of an Assyrian King...not the Babylonians.
Up until the 17th century most people using the word Abysynnia meant anything from present day Ethiopia to the Indian Sub-continent...(read about the history of the infamous Prester John...)
I do agree, though, that western Africa should get some sort of recognition...anyone remember the grand university of Timbouctou?
Including the "Arabs" is ridiculous. That would be like playing the great civilization of English Speakers...2 countries divided by a common language...

Plus it would be more fun to make the mighty Romans bow before my Penn. Dutch empire...

 

[jpowers]

I didn't see the Mennonites on the list. Talk about special coding for Civ!! Inability to create military units, inability to gain tech advances beyond middle ages, and temples become obsolete every 50 turns due to constant internal splits.

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by rihala

Including the "Arabs" is ridiculous. That would be like playing the great civilization of English Speakers...2 countries divided by a common language...

I strongly disagree, the Arabs have more in common than just language. Anyway, language is and always has been the thing most likely to determine a nation. If you have read much of my posting, you'll know that I support the idea of an English speaking civ. The Americans and Scots could maybe be excluded for historical and cultural reasons, but I think the rest have too much in common to be separated.

 

[rihala]

You are correct in saying that the Arab nations have more in common than just a language. Religion for example. However the greatest number of Muslims are non-arabic speaking, Indonesia being the best example. I agree that language is a great definition of nation but not the best. The USA is slowly drifting towards a non-english based society. Some estimates place Spanish in the Majority by 2030...

 

[alpha wolf 64]

I want the wookies and ewoks.

 

[zoom314]

Or how about the Grand Daddy of them All the "Atlantians? Who as archeaolgists seem to think were based on the Volcanic Island of Thera over in the Meditterainian sea. They had hot and cold running water and even sewer pipes too. It's just too bad that the Island went Boom!

 

[Pangur Bán]

Originally posted by zoom314
Or how about the Grand Daddy of them All the "Atlantians? Who as archeaolgists seem to think were based on the Volcanic Island of Thera over in the Meditterainian sea. They had hot and cold running water and even sewer pipes too. It's just too bad that the Island went Boom!

Not such a bad idea - might be popular. It might be a problem obtaining city lists, a leader, Great Leaders and a UU.