[NFP] New Envoy Bonus

[Lily_Lancer]

What will the envoy bonus be after the July update? It is said that it ties to the "diplomatic square", how does it work?


BTW Let's design some new CSs.

Taipei, Scientific
Suzerain Bonus: Military Units -1 gold maintenance, get gold equals to 50% of the production cost when deleting a military unit, this unit will appear in Taipei 3 turns later.

Copenhagen, Scientific
Suzerain Bonus: -50% Diplomatic Penalty for Excess Grievance, -100% Diplomatic Penalty for CO2 emission

Havana, Cultural
Suzerain Bonus: You get an additional free vote towards each resolution in World Congress.

San Marino, Cultural
Suzerain Bonus: Your Commercial Hubs, Industrial Zones and Cultural District get +1 adjacency if it is next to a mountain tile.

Cape Town, Commercial
Suzerain Bonus: Your trade routes travel 100% faster and can reach 100% farther destinations.

Monaco, Commercial
Suzerain Bonus: Every turn, your internal gold income randoms(uniformly) between 80% to 135% of its basic value.

Kathmandu, Religious
Suzerain Bonus: Cities that follow your established religion will give another quest immediately when you finish the previous quest, not when you enter a new era.

Bangkok, Religious
Suzerain Bonus: Religious Buildings get +1 GP point for Scientists, Writers, Prophets and Merchants.

Belgrade, Industrial
Suzerain Bonus: Your industrial city-state envoy bonus expands to cities within 6 tiles (this bonus does not stack for multiple industrial zones for each city)

Kiev, Industrial
Suzerain Bonus: +25% production when producing military units in a city with an industrial zone.

Pyongyang, Militaristic
Suzerain Bonus: +10 resource storage limitation for each building that provides housing(granary, sewer, barrack, university), +100% Uranium gathered, +30% production when producing Manhattan Project, Project Ivy, Build Nuclear Device and Build Thermal Nuclear Device.

Guam, Militaristic
Suzerain Bonus: +5 HP per turn for unit healing, naval units can heal on neutral or enemy waters.

 

[bbbt]

I'm guessing the idea that the envoy bonus will be basically the same, you just need the diplomatic quarter to achieve it now. I.e. you need +3 envoys, a library, the diplomatic quarter and the first diplo quarter building before the bonus. Delaying/gating the effect.

Other thoughts it just moves the bonus to the diplo quarter, but that makes more of a rework.

 

[steveg700]

I'm guessing the idea that the envoy bonus will be basically the same, you just need the diplomatic quarter to achieve it now. I.e. you need +3 envoys, a library, the diplomatic quarter and the first diplo quarter building before the bonus. Delaying/gating the effect.

Other thoughts it just moves the bonus to the diplo quarter, but that makes more of a rework.

The whole idea of the diplomatic quarter seems quite superfluous on face value, so let's hope so. I think many would agree that city-state bonuses need to some form of check. Of course, if just building the district and some token building is all you need to go back to getting all city-state bonuses, then it's just a speed bump.

Likewise, maybe alliance benefits, which can already be extremely generous just from a policy card, will be checked in some fashion.

 

[Civ Chemist]

To me it looks like the DQ buildings get the benefits from city state envoys. In the preview the T1 building provides 4 gold, 4 science and 2 faith and the T2 building 3 faith. Those yields seem to be very random and are probably tied to city state envoys.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

To me it looks like the DQ buildings get the benefits from city state envoys. In the preview the T1 building provides 4 gold, 4 science and 2 faith and the T2 building 3 faith. Those yields seem to be very random and are probably tied to city state envoys.

Actually that make senses, so the bonus no longer scales with your empire. Meaning that a single city state no longer provides +16 yield for 8 cities with Tier 1 building., it not only provides +2 with Tier 1 DQ building instead.

It's also why there's only two buildings to begin with, for Envoy number 3, and Envoy Number 6, the first 1 envoy probably still applies to the Palace though or the District itself.

 

[Civ Chemist]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. I would also be a significant nerf to wide and address the issue many people seem to have, that city state yields are too powerful. Also big indirect nerf to Greece and Georigia to a lesser degree.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

It's also why there's only two buildings to begin with, for Envoy number 3, and Envoy Number 6, the first 1 envoy probably still applies to the Palace though or the District itself.

I'm pretty sure this is it.
1 Envoy= +2 of that city-state yield bonus, or +4 for gold for a Trade city-state, go toward the Capital. (Like it is now)
3 Envoys= +2 more of that city-state yield bonus, or +4 more gold for a Trade city-state, go toward the Consulate.
6 Envoys= +2 more of that city-state yield bonus, or +4 more gold for a Trade city-state, go toward the Chancery.

 

[Civ Chemist]

6 Envoys= +2 more of that city-state yield bonus, or +4 more gold for a Trade city-state, go toward the Chancery.

In the video we could see that the Chancery provides +3 faith. So my guess would be they increased the yields for 6 envoys to +3 (+6 for trade city states)

 

[Kwami]

Actually that make senses, so the bonus no longer scales with your empire. Meaning that a single city state no longer provides +16 yield for 8 cities with Tier 1 building., it not only provides +2 with Tier 1 DQ building instead.

It's also why there's only two buildings to begin with, for Envoy number 3, and Envoy Number 6, the first 1 envoy probably still applies to the Palace though or the District itself.

Which, again, would be a horrible change.

1. It discourages early exploration and significantly reduces the value of Scouts and Envoys.
2. It substantially reduces the value of city-states as a whole.
3. It creates one super powerful city at the expense of all other cities.
4. It doesn't help "wide" empires or "tall" empires. It just... doesn't do much of anything at all.

Honestly, what's the point of having the Envoy bonuses if they only get applied to a single city? Is it really worth 3/6 Envoys to get a total of 2/3 Science or Culture or Faith? Definitely not.

If they make a change like this, then you'll send Envoys only to city-states that you want to be suzerain of and just kill or forever ignore the others because they just aren't worth the Envoys.

Terrible. I really hope that you're wrong.

 

[Josephias]

Actually that make senses, so the bonus no longer scales with your empire. Meaning that a single city state no longer provides +16 yield for 8 cities with Tier 1 building., it not only provides +2 with Tier 1 DQ building instead.

It's also why there's only two buildings to begin with, for Envoy number 3, and Envoy Number 6, the first 1 envoy probably still applies to the Palace though or the District itself.

That may make sense for empire-wide bonuses (gold, science, culture, faith,...) but I have a hard time figuring how it will work for production bonuses of militaristic and industrial city states. Getting them only to the city that has the DQ is odd.

Maybe these two bonuses do still apply to all cities? or maybe it is both: you receive the bonuses both in the currently applicable buildings + the Diplomatic Quarter?. I feel this second solution could apply and be quite interesting: both gating the bonuses, but giving an interesting plus to the city that builds the DQ.

I'm sure the 1-envoy bonuses would either not be gated, or be gated at district level. Requiring a district + a building for these first tier bonuses would be just too much.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

That may make sense for empire-wide bonuses (gold, science, culture, faith,...) but I have a hard time figuring how it will work for production bonuses of militaristic and industrial city states. Getting them only to the city that has the DQ is odd.

Now that you mention it we didn't see any production bonuses towards those buildings. I guess not culture either in the video, but I guess they just weren't the suzerain of a cultural city-state.
That would be weird if you only got production bonuses out of that one city from city states though.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

In the video we could see that the Chancery provides +3 faith. So my guess would be they increased the yields for 6 envoys to +3 (+6 for trade city states)

This change will be very significant. I guess the time of SV/CV may be severely delayed. From the current ~T170 range to ~T180 range maybe.

And everything will change.
1: Culture will not be that useful given CS envoy bonus severely lowered.
2: The value of Campuses will go down given they're currently receiving most bonus from CS envoys.
3: The relative strength of Commercial Hubs/Harbors will go up.

Do the diplomacy buildings provide bonuses other than CS envoy bonuses? Or they're just to activate the CS envoy bonus? They're a bit costly actually, 150 for T1 and 290 for T2.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Do the diplomacy buildings provide bonuses other than CS envoy bonuses? Or they're just to activate the CS envoy bonus? They're a bit costly actually, 150 for T1 and 290 for T2.

The Consulate gives +1 influence point per turn and makes enemy spies operate one level lower than usual when targeting it and adjacent districts on top of the two levels lower by the District itself.

The Chancery gives +3 influence points per turn and you gain 50 science per level of a captured or killed enemy spy.

 

[The googles do nothing]

Is there official information on the change to envoys? I'm surprised they did offer tall vs wide building options like the government district.

Monaco, Commercial
Suzerain Bonus: Every turn, your internal gold income randoms(uniformly) between 80% to 135% of its basic value.

Las Vegas
Suzerain Bonus: Your Entertainment Districts have a 1 turn 'Lady Luck' project which grants or removes a random amount of gold.

 

[Kwami]

Is there official information on the change to envoys? I'm surprised they did offer tall vs wide building options like the government district.

There is not yet any official information about the changes to envoy bonuses.

 

[Revanchist]

There are already a lot of city states. If anything, add a new type like agrarian that mixes things up

 

[Lily_Lancer]

The Consulate gives +1 influence point per turn and makes enemy spies operate one level lower than usual when targeting it and adjacent districts on top of the two levels lower by the District itself.

The Chancery gives +3 influence points per turn and you gain 50 science per level of a captured or killed enemy spy.

Seems not a very significant bonus. I probably will delay building those buildings until very late in my games.

Anyway Germany will be stronger as capturing CS is a better option now.

 

[leandrombraz]

There are already a lot of city states. If anything, add a new type like agrarian that mixes things up

The November DLC will add more City-States. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they add a new type, but I don't think they will.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Maybe you will still have CS bonuses to all your cities but they will be halved. Like:

3 Envoys: +3 yields in your Consulate, +1 in your respective tier 1 building
6 Envoys: +6 yields in your Chancery, +1 in your respective tier 2 building

 

[Uberfrog]

The November DLC will add more City-States. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they add a new type, but I don't think they will.

I also doubt they will, but I struggle to see the point of adding yet more city-states of the types we already have.

We’re currently at 42 (7 of each type). I get they are an easy thing to add, but there’s a severe case of diminishing returns.

If they are decoupling envoy bonuses from specific districts towards the Diplomatic Quarter that potentially gives them more freedom to create, say a Diplomatic type. But then the new district requires this Ethiopia pack specifically... so that’s a bit of a mess...