Ford_Friendly
Chieftain
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2018
- Messages
- 6
...
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[BTS] New guy...trying to improve
- Thread starter Ford_Friendly
- Start date
I'd just enter world builder and delete that gold mine. They don't spawn on forest anyway. Moving away from the sheep was dumb (food, remember?). Next city should go 1W or 2W of "1" to grab the sheep. Scout more before 3rd city, but it won't be number "2", there is no food.
Forest grassland wheat also, why?
Forest grassland wheat also, why?
Last edited:
intutama
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2012
- Messages
- 117
Hello @Ford_Friendly and welcome!
You are probably missing some base knowledge about the game. Generally learning some basics will bring you a whole bunch of difficulty level higher.
Currently a novice player is receiving a lot of advice in his thread, make sure to read it:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-nooble-prince-of-portugal.627917/
Back in the days I learned a lot watching the first few videos from Sulla's Let's Play.
Once you have a little better grasp on the game a nice way to improve is to play is to post your game (just as you did) or play the latest Noble Club. Just don't forget to post your initial autosave !
Finally I would not advice playing marathon/huge because it's supposed to be easier. Just play normal speed and once your economy crashes post a save and ask for what you could do better.
PS: if your middle game is weak you probably don't know how to build a strong Burocracy capitol. For example your city 1 could be two tiles on the left (so just right of the sheep) so it can work 3 of your capitol cottages when needed. In fact I'd rather build "1" as third city, and instead build the second city (your "3") 3N of the capitol, grow it to size 4 by farming the two river grassland, so you can work 2x gold in this city and let your capitol work cottages instead.
Don't forget that in this game you usually can't grow your city much for a long while, so don't be afraid to overlap some tiles.
You are probably missing some base knowledge about the game. Generally learning some basics will bring you a whole bunch of difficulty level higher.
Currently a novice player is receiving a lot of advice in his thread, make sure to read it:
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-nooble-prince-of-portugal.627917/
Back in the days I learned a lot watching the first few videos from Sulla's Let's Play.
Once you have a little better grasp on the game a nice way to improve is to play is to post your game (just as you did) or play the latest Noble Club. Just don't forget to post your initial autosave !
Finally I would not advice playing marathon/huge because it's supposed to be easier. Just play normal speed and once your economy crashes post a save and ask for what you could do better.
PS: if your middle game is weak you probably don't know how to build a strong Burocracy capitol. For example your city 1 could be two tiles on the left (so just right of the sheep) so it can work 3 of your capitol cottages when needed. In fact I'd rather build "1" as third city, and instead build the second city (your "3") 3N of the capitol, grow it to size 4 by farming the two river grassland, so you can work 2x gold in this city and let your capitol work cottages instead.
Don't forget that in this game you usually can't grow your city much for a long while, so don't be afraid to overlap some tiles.
Reinstall Civ 4? I think you just had a specific map generator or an unusual map script.
Also you should be able to defend the barbs while playing on Noble. You already get 2 free wins vs them (on noble) before you actually are in danger. I think barb animals also count as fights vs them.
As sampsa stated earlier, i recommend that you play forum games WITH the forum and not alone. Play next forum game a lot slower with more posts.
I will give here only advice for defending the Barbs. If your game ends with barbs, you need to learn a lot more.
Usually you can prevent barbs from spawning when you fogbust with your warriors and archers/axeman. Try to place them on forest/jungle hills or forests/jungle and just fortify them there. In BtS Vanilla (without mods like K-mod) the barbs will usually (always?) attack their closest target so, these fortified units will intercept barbs moving into your territory.
A game lost to barbs is (excuse my language here) the result of sloppy gameplay and pure greed and lazyness.
Also you dont even want the barbs to pillage your early tile improvements. That puts you in a huge disavadantage and wastes worker turns
.
Also you need to get 2-4 warriors out anyway. These can go fogbusting and later city garrison.
+ Noble difficulty barb spawn : Turn 35
+ Noble difficulty animal strength : - 40%
+ Noble difficulty barb strength : -10%
Thus said i usually play the game on deity immortal/deity difficulty, where barbs spawn very very early and are quite dangerous.
On noble difficuly you already have 35 turns (deity only 10) before the barbs spawn. Then on noble you get the 2 free wins i mentioned above anyway. And the likelyhood is much larger that barb warriors spawn instead of archers/axes/spearmans. Ofc a barb axe/spear gives me trouble too on deity difficulty.
Thus said you should prioritize in your early game:
First tech usually the tech that allows you to hook up your food resources. Mostly Agriculture/Fishing, sometimes Animal Husbandry/Hunting.
Then follows the beeline for the Barb defense tech. Of course i would like to tech maybe Pottery too or go for Priesthood and try to get the oracle but then i just flat out get swarmed to death by barbs. Four choices here. Listed in general efficiency. These work even on deity difficulty.
1. Hunting -> Archery.
This will keep you safe from barbs nearly 100%. Move your archers through hills/forests to a location where they can fogbust. Get 1-2 archers out. 1 goes fogbusting the other stay near your cities/roads to move to a location where a barb enters.
This is safe, on the other hand it is unattractive since archers are bad attackers and Hunting -> Archery is a dead end tech. Usually you want to get an edge early game and this will slow you down. But often times that is the prize you have to pay.
Viable ? : Always. Especially with deer/elephants in BFC or nearby.
2. Mining -> Bronze Working
The most efficient tech. Bronze working unlocks slavery and reveals copper and more important the ability to chop forests. WIth axemans on your own barbs usually have a bad time. You can whip/chop emergency axemans when a barb archer/axe/spear threatens a city.
On the other hand if you dont find copper nearby (sometimes you need to settle 2nd city on the copper itself, no time for road+mine), you are basicially forced to go for archery now.
Viable ? : Most of the games. Especially when you have a lots of forests.
3. Agriculture/Hunting -> Animal Husbandry.
Niche play. I would only gamble on horses if i have already 1-2 strong early game food resources like pigs or sheep. Cows are the weakest AH tile for food so not as strong as pigs/sheep. With Chariots you are good to go and very mobile too. Good for scouting your enemy later and also taking barb cities.
Viable ? : Occasionaly when pigs/sheeps are in BFC or nearby.
4. Warrior only.
Skip production of anything else (mostly settler, after your first worker at turn 0) and pump out 3 - 6 (estimted numbers) warriors. Move them very carefully only on forests and forests hills or mountain chains at rivers. The most greedy option and should only be played when you know how to fogbust properly. Once your warrior reached the forest/hill forests where he is supposed to fogbust, fortify and STAY. If you move 1 tile into fog and there is a barb archer your toast most of your combat rolls.
Viable ? : Very risky and only recommended if you want to be greedy.
FOGBUSTING. I hope i am correct here, someone may correct me if i am mistaken.
A new barb can not spawn in 2 tiles distance to your units.
Also 1 tile aways from four city borders.
Example 1 / Unit : Inside of this red box no barb can spawn, even when the tile is is in fog of war. Important! A barb who spawned somewhere else ofc can just enter this area!
Example 2 / City : A little more simple. Your city borders give vision, inside the red box no Barbs can spawn. Same concept when you get the border pop.
This applies for your own units/cities, as for the units/cities of your A.I. opponenents. ! And also for barb units/cities (i believe). Correct me if i am wrong here please.
Here is a link to some information about difficulty level (page 74 of the PDF document)
https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/civ4-bts-reference-de-standard-version-pdf.9038/
Hope that helps a bit. Greetings
!
Also you should be able to defend the barbs while playing on Noble. You already get 2 free wins vs them (on noble) before you actually are in danger. I think barb animals also count as fights vs them.
As sampsa stated earlier, i recommend that you play forum games WITH the forum and not alone. Play next forum game a lot slower with more posts.
I will give here only advice for defending the Barbs. If your game ends with barbs, you need to learn a lot more.
Usually you can prevent barbs from spawning when you fogbust with your warriors and archers/axeman. Try to place them on forest/jungle hills or forests/jungle and just fortify them there. In BtS Vanilla (without mods like K-mod) the barbs will usually (always?) attack their closest target so, these fortified units will intercept barbs moving into your territory.
A game lost to barbs is (excuse my language here) the result of sloppy gameplay and pure greed and lazyness.
Also you dont even want the barbs to pillage your early tile improvements. That puts you in a huge disavadantage and wastes worker turns
.
Also you need to get 2-4 warriors out anyway. These can go fogbusting and later city garrison.
+ Noble difficulty barb spawn : Turn 35
+ Noble difficulty animal strength : - 40%
+ Noble difficulty barb strength : -10%
Thus said i usually play the game on deity immortal/deity difficulty, where barbs spawn very very early and are quite dangerous.
On noble difficuly you already have 35 turns (deity only 10) before the barbs spawn. Then on noble you get the 2 free wins i mentioned above anyway. And the likelyhood is much larger that barb warriors spawn instead of archers/axes/spearmans. Ofc a barb axe/spear gives me trouble too on deity difficulty.
Thus said you should prioritize in your early game:
First tech usually the tech that allows you to hook up your food resources. Mostly Agriculture/Fishing, sometimes Animal Husbandry/Hunting.
Then follows the beeline for the Barb defense tech. Of course i would like to tech maybe Pottery too or go for Priesthood and try to get the oracle but then i just flat out get swarmed to death by barbs. Four choices here. Listed in general efficiency. These work even on deity difficulty.
1. Hunting -> Archery.
This will keep you safe from barbs nearly 100%. Move your archers through hills/forests to a location where they can fogbust. Get 1-2 archers out. 1 goes fogbusting the other stay near your cities/roads to move to a location where a barb enters.
This is safe, on the other hand it is unattractive since archers are bad attackers and Hunting -> Archery is a dead end tech. Usually you want to get an edge early game and this will slow you down. But often times that is the prize you have to pay.
Viable ? : Always. Especially with deer/elephants in BFC or nearby.
2. Mining -> Bronze Working
The most efficient tech. Bronze working unlocks slavery and reveals copper and more important the ability to chop forests. WIth axemans on your own barbs usually have a bad time. You can whip/chop emergency axemans when a barb archer/axe/spear threatens a city.
On the other hand if you dont find copper nearby (sometimes you need to settle 2nd city on the copper itself, no time for road+mine), you are basicially forced to go for archery now.
Viable ? : Most of the games. Especially when you have a lots of forests.
3. Agriculture/Hunting -> Animal Husbandry.
Niche play. I would only gamble on horses if i have already 1-2 strong early game food resources like pigs or sheep. Cows are the weakest AH tile for food so not as strong as pigs/sheep. With Chariots you are good to go and very mobile too. Good for scouting your enemy later and also taking barb cities.
Viable ? : Occasionaly when pigs/sheeps are in BFC or nearby.
4. Warrior only.
Skip production of anything else (mostly settler, after your first worker at turn 0) and pump out 3 - 6 (estimted numbers) warriors. Move them very carefully only on forests and forests hills or mountain chains at rivers. The most greedy option and should only be played when you know how to fogbust properly. Once your warrior reached the forest/hill forests where he is supposed to fogbust, fortify and STAY. If you move 1 tile into fog and there is a barb archer your toast most of your combat rolls.
Viable ? : Very risky and only recommended if you want to be greedy.
FOGBUSTING. I hope i am correct here, someone may correct me if i am mistaken.
A new barb can not spawn in 2 tiles distance to your units.
Also 1 tile aways from four city borders.
Example 1 / Unit : Inside of this red box no barb can spawn, even when the tile is is in fog of war. Important! A barb who spawned somewhere else ofc can just enter this area!
Spoiler :
Example 2 / City : A little more simple. Your city borders give vision, inside the red box no Barbs can spawn. Same concept when you get the border pop.
Spoiler :
This applies for your own units/cities, as for the units/cities of your A.I. opponenents. ! And also for barb units/cities (i believe). Correct me if i am wrong here please.
Here is a link to some information about difficulty level (page 74 of the PDF document)
https://forums.civfanatics.com/resources/civ4-bts-reference-de-standard-version-pdf.9038/
Hope that helps a bit. Greetings
!
Last edited:
intutama
Warlord
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2012
- Messages
- 117
@Olafeson : Last time I spoke about fogbusting I got schooled, so now I spread the word 
:
Pedro78 said: Technically, barbs won't spawn within 2 tiles of any unit. They also won't spawn on any tile that is revealed to any player, including barbarians. However barbarians can spawn on a fogged tile 2 tiles away from your culture. Maybe it's what you meant but I found the explanation a bit confusing.
:Pedro78 said: Technically, barbs won't spawn within 2 tiles of any unit. They also won't spawn on any tile that is revealed to any player, including barbarians. However barbarians can spawn on a fogged tile 2 tiles away from your culture. Maybe it's what you meant but I found the explanation a bit confusing.
@intutama
I think that is what i meant, Basically the tile next outside of your borders is revealed by your culture border. The next tile there, 1 tile further away from your border which is covered in fog, THERE a barb can spawn. That is basically important when you don thave vision of enemy A.I. borders and Barb city borders, you can still be safe from barb spawns at these places, since you do not fogbust there but the A.I./Barb city.
For example my picture 2.
1 SE of the marble / 1 S of the pigs a barbarian can spawn. Fog of war.
1 S of the marble no barb can spawn. No fog of war.
Bascially all that pedro78 meant was that the borders dont count as a unit. So dont give vision from their location in a 5x5 box. I think.
I think that is what i meant, Basically the tile next outside of your borders is revealed by your culture border. The next tile there, 1 tile further away from your border which is covered in fog, THERE a barb can spawn. That is basically important when you don thave vision of enemy A.I. borders and Barb city borders, you can still be safe from barb spawns at these places, since you do not fogbust there but the A.I./Barb city.
For example my picture 2.
1 SE of the marble / 1 S of the pigs a barbarian can spawn. Fog of war.
1 S of the marble no barb can spawn. No fog of war.
Bascially all that pedro78 meant was that the borders dont count as a unit. So dont give vision from their location in a 5x5 box. I think.
SittinDown
King
looks like a good start to me. you've got plenty of food... you've got rivers and are financial. I like the Corn + Fish spot to the south, and the corn to the NE is probably a solid site - at a minimum, it can help develop cottages for the capital. this is good situation to learn about a Bureaucracy capital, where you head towards Civil Service, cottage the capital, and switch to Bureaucracy, which will pull in a ton of commerce. (plus get a great scientist early ish and build an academy).
I'd focus on getting farming and AH (animal husbandry) and BW (bronze working). lots of forests around.
should be able to expand peacefully towards the gold and the beaver for +2 happy resources.
I'd focus on getting farming and AH (animal husbandry) and BW (bronze working). lots of forests around.
should be able to expand peacefully towards the gold and the beaver for +2 happy resources.
SittinDown
King
first things first - settle Amsterdam. you picked a good location. 1 worker is probably enough for now, and yes, that'd be my first build there. the worker should do corn, then gold, then road back to the capital.
city 3 might be the corn-pig site near the copper, but look out for horses when you get AH. where you go from here probably depends on the location of horses.
city 3 might be the corn-pig site near the copper, but look out for horses when you get AH. where you go from here probably depends on the location of horses.
SittinDown
King
don't build in the tundra. that horse locations is not worth settling yet.
i'd put city #3 at 2 west of the pigs. you get pigs, corn, and copper, plus river, and forests. that city will be up and running fast, and be able to pump out units quick. ....if you head to Math you can easily axe+catapult rush H.C.
if you REALLY want to do a horse-archer rush, you could plop your 4th city 1N of the deer.... but i'd rather just take HC's capital for the horses with axes and maybe catapults than build a city in the tundra.
i'd put city #3 at 2 west of the pigs. you get pigs, corn, and copper, plus river, and forests. that city will be up and running fast, and be able to pump out units quick. ....if you head to Math you can easily axe+catapult rush H.C.
if you REALLY want to do a horse-archer rush, you could plop your 4th city 1N of the deer.... but i'd rather just take HC's capital for the horses with axes and maybe catapults than build a city in the tundra.
SittinDown
King
open borders is fine. you can trade with him before you destroy him. i rarely say no to open borders. i don't cancel it until i want to actually go to war. you'll gain some foreign trade route commerce (+1 or so) for nothing.
....math is a good choice, it's on the road to construction, and the +50% chops is helpful.
...you should start cottaging Amsterdam and let it grow. ...you should farm the 2nd corn in Amsterdam. you might need another worker.
....math is a good choice, it's on the road to construction, and the +50% chops is helpful.
...you should start cottaging Amsterdam and let it grow. ...you should farm the 2nd corn in Amsterdam. you might need another worker.
SittinDown
King
Yeah - people here refer to fog as the shadows. Unexplored is the black parts. Barbs can spawn anywhere that isn't lit up, so people use warriors to park out in the lands to keep things lit up. A warrior can prevent barbs from spawning up to 2 (or 3?) tiles away from it, whether it can actually see the tile or not, so you don't need a ton.
SittinDown
King
whip some axes, and the barbs will be no sweat. usually people
- fogbust by spreading out warriors into the lands.
- when the barbs switch to archers, park warriors on forested hills, they'll usually win.
- when barbs switch to axes, make sure you research the wheel for chariots, or archery for archers.
- if axe barbs are still a problem after that you didn't expand fast enough or you need to fogbust better.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 27,065
@Ford_Friendly
I meant to comment on this earlier, but then you had originally posted a normal settings game for learning. Without getting into any debates on "mara vs." here, I would like to point out that the logic here is flawed, at least in terms of Civ IV. First of all, "more time", and in this case, "mara" is an exorbitantly slow speed, what you are actually doing is compounding your errors, and further harming your learning experience. The snowball effect is quite a big factor in the game, so the early decisions and strategies are extremely important. "More time" is just making the many errors you make early hurt you more later. Just leads to frustration.
Second, the best way to learn is to play more games. Obviously, focusing on one mara game is going to take you a very very long time. Whereas normal settings allow a better pace for learning and more experience with the early stages of the game. Anyway, normal speed makes for quite satisfying game.
I meant to comment on this earlier, but then you had originally posted a normal settings game for learning. Without getting into any debates on "mara vs." here, I would like to point out that the logic here is flawed, at least in terms of Civ IV. First of all, "more time", and in this case, "mara" is an exorbitantly slow speed, what you are actually doing is compounding your errors, and further harming your learning experience. The snowball effect is quite a big factor in the game, so the early decisions and strategies are extremely important. "More time" is just making the many errors you make early hurt you more later. Just leads to frustration.
Second, the best way to learn is to play more games. Obviously, focusing on one mara game is going to take you a very very long time. Whereas normal settings allow a better pace for learning and more experience with the early stages of the game. Anyway, normal speed makes for quite satisfying game.
SittinDown
King
hmm.... the AI doesn't cheat that way. likely, they had the units spread out elsewhere, but moved them into the capital via roads.
SittinDown
King
Currency would be helpful - you can build wealth in your hammer rich, commerce / infrastructure poor cities, so your capital can convert it's commerce into beakers. Plus the extra trade route per city is at minimum +7 commerce per turn.
...there's still a LOT of good land available. you should head for currency, and build a city in every spot that has at least 1 good food resource ASAP. you should aim for something like 12-15 cities on your landmass peacefully at this point. get your science up, and after currency start working towards astronomy. there's another continent out there. whip / chop some workers, and some settlers. grab that land.
it's 50 AD, and you're only producing 40 beakers at 50%. Did you cottage Amsterdam?
...there's still a LOT of good land available. you should head for currency, and build a city in every spot that has at least 1 good food resource ASAP. you should aim for something like 12-15 cities on your landmass peacefully at this point. get your science up, and after currency start working towards astronomy. there's another continent out there. whip / chop some workers, and some settlers. grab that land.
it's 50 AD, and you're only producing 40 beakers at 50%. Did you cottage Amsterdam?
Well they can with some mods like the K-Mod. Not sure if he plays Vanilla BtS or some modded stuff.
Anyway ca not give advice on something i did never play.
Not sure how exactly you want us to help. You seem to have a better grasp on these kind of game settings than the most here.
Maybe @WastinTime can help you with these sot of games.
Playing Civ 4 on huge maps with marathon speed is nearly like playing a total different game. Never did this.
Anyway ca not give advice on something i did never play.
Not sure how exactly you want us to help. You seem to have a better grasp on these kind of game settings than the most here.
Maybe @WastinTime can help you with these sot of games.
Playing Civ 4 on huge maps with marathon speed is nearly like playing a total different game. Never did this.
SittinDown
King
you need 1 more fog buster. fortunately, the chariots should have no problem with barb axes - so really, you can opt not to add another fog buster, and use that as an XP farm 
....you still need more settlers. MORE CITIES. you don't need barracks and chariots et cetera. build settlers and workers until you fill your land. ..........unless you're going conquest, but by the point in the game, chariots are not going to cut it. you should improve your economy, and expand your land, and then attack later.
....you still need more settlers. MORE CITIES.
you don't need barracks and chariots et cetera. build settlers and workers until you fill your land. ..........unless you're going conquest, but by the point in the game, chariots are not going to cut it. you should improve your economy, and expand your land, and then attack later.
SittinDown
King
did you turn your alerts off or something?
and a warrior should never beat an archer in a capital.
...also your improvements are a little sketchy. should have improved the 2nd corn in the capital. should have built a city by that corn and deer near the capital. should have cottaged the flood plains by Amsterdam, not farmed them, as i said a few times.
you only built 1 city between 50 AD and 550 AD. you're still producing the same (very low) number of beakers per turn as in 50 AD.
if you're really looking to improve - i'd start a new game at this point, play slower and try again to incorporate the hints you've heard here as you go.
and a warrior should never beat an archer in a capital.
...also your improvements are a little sketchy. should have improved the 2nd corn in the capital. should have built a city by that corn and deer near the capital. should have cottaged the flood plains by Amsterdam, not farmed them, as i said a few times.
you only built 1 city between 50 AD and 550 AD. you're still producing the same (very low) number of beakers per turn as in 50 AD.
if you're really looking to improve - i'd start a new game at this point, play slower and try again to incorporate the hints you've heard here as you go.
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