pre-release info New First Look: Catherine the Great

pre-release info
To be fair, the language of the Russian court at the time was actually French (so much so, that the entire first chapter of War and Peace, where Russian nobility discuss Napoleon’s military advances, is written in French). So if FXS really wanted to lean into historical accuracy, she would be speaking French, but that’s one of those cases where historical accuracy should probably take a back seat in favor of “layman’s immersion”.
It's a shame we missed out on a Francophone leader. Civ 7 doesn't have enough of those.
 
Can any Russian speakers on the forum discern if the voice actor is speaking with a German accent?

Not in the slightest, she's speaking ordinary modern Russian, clearly a native speaker. Russian phonology is quite particular so even though we hear half of a phrase, it's very clear.

It's an understandable choice. Catherine, by written accounts, had a very noticeable German accent and never got the grammar fully right, representing that in the game would probably sound more like making fun of her.
 
To be fair, the language of the Russian court at the time was actually French (so much so, that the entire first chapter of War and Peace, where Russian nobility discuss Napoleon’s military advances, is written in French). So if FXS really wanted to lean into historical accuracy, she would be speaking French, but that’s one of those cases where historical accuracy should probably take a back seat in favor of “layman’s immersion”.
This is exactly it (@Solver 's related point also stands). We know Catherine's home language, and the court language, but the levels of confusion and annoyance that we'd getting her to speak French or German would be high.

Also, we don't have all of her foreign correspondence, so we might never know what language she wrote to Hatshepsut in.
 
I think you can get a better listen from this clip.
Yeah, very much a modern radio host. I’m ok with that, and I guess it fits a younger portrayal of Catherine - but wish the lines were more archaic (could still be the case, we’ll need to hear other lines) and delivered with more gravitas. They’ve kind of nailed it with Chinese leaders during Civ 6’s life cycle.
 
It's a shame we missed out on a Francophone leader. Civ 7 doesn't have enough of those.
They are making up for the lack of Francophone leaders in Civ 6. :mischief:
 
Not in the slightest, she's speaking ordinary modern Russian, clearly a native speaker. Russian phonology is quite particular so even though we hear half of a phrase, it's very clear.

It's an understandable choice. Catherine, by written accounts, had a very noticeable German accent and never got the grammar fully right, representing that in the game would probably sound more like making fun of her.
In VI, Catherine speaks glaringly accented French. She even speaks Italian when she gets angry.

I’m not suggesting Catherine should be mocked (outside of her affection for horse riding), but it sounds resoundingly like she would have spoken with a German accent.
 
This is exactly it (@Solver 's related point also stands). We know Catherine's home language, and the court language, but the levels of confusion and annoyance that we'd getting her to speak French or German would be high.

Also, we don't have all of her foreign correspondence, so we might never know what language she wrote to Hatshepsut in.
Having once upon a time found a 'letter book' of correspondence from a Russian diplomat of the Napoleonic Era (1790 - 1815 ) in a university library, the Neutral Language used for diplomatic correspondence was Latin - at least with the Ottoman Turks.

After thinking about it, I realized why: using either state's 'native language' would be giving too much weight to that state in any negotiation. Using any other European language would insult the Turks. A language conveniently attached to a defunct state was a perfect, neutral choice - as long as they didn't discuss anything related to the Christian Catholic church, which was a safe bet since neither of the correspondents' polities was Catholic . . .
 
I think you can get a better listen from this clip.
This is what I imagine Sophie Stanislovskievna Somorkov-Smirnoff from Anastasia sounding like in Russian.
 
You all can discuss Catherine's language further in my Leaders' dialogues thread. :mischief: I find her depiction looking way younger than 33 years old (when she became Empress regnant). She looks like a teenager to me. I was kind of expecting an older version of Catherine the Great, we haven't gotten that since Civ3....
 
representing that in the game would probably sound more like making fun of her.
Moreover, the number of players polyglot enough to appreciate "ah, that's Russian, but spoken by someone whose native language was German" is probably not--well, probably not very poly.
 
Nope, she speaks pretty modern Russian

I understand why FXS thought it may confuse players to have her speak French or German, I suppose, but the First Look does refer to her as a "German Princess," so I really don't think it would have been that confusing. Especially as we have a number or leaders in Civ VI who speak unexpected languages as well.
 
Moreover, the number of players polyglot enough to appreciate "ah, that's Russian, but spoken by someone whose native language was German" is probably not--well, probably not very poly.

Yeah, one should think so, but I never cease to be amazed by the likes of @Zaarin popping up with obscure knowledge like "yes, he's speaking Akkadian, but his ejectives sound too Sumerian-influenced so unfortunately this Akkadian is at least 250 years too old".
 
Moreover, the number of players polyglot enough to appreciate "ah, that's Russian, but spoken by someone whose native language was German" is probably not--well, probably not very poly.
I mean yes, we are all nerds here on the forum. However, I had an instantaneous (and somewhat feverish) reaction when I heard Catherine de Medici speak for the first time in heavily Italian-accented French. I really don't think it would have been much of a stretch at all.
 
However, I had an instantaneous (and somewhat feverish) reaction when I heard Catherine de Medici speak for the first time in heavily Italian-accented French.
I loved how many bilingual Civ6 leaders would code switch. It's all fun and games until CdM starts screaming at you in Italian or Gandhi starts speaking Hindi.
 
I mean, they absolutely, could do it (for the small number like yourself capable of appreciating it). And it wouldn't positively alienate people unlearned in the languages in question (for whom the sounds are just gibberish).

They might have to work harder to find capable voice actors. Can all Russian speakers speak Russian as though by a native German speaker? Or do you look for a native German speaker who later learned Russian?

A lot of effort for the small number of people who could appreciate it.
 
I mean, they absolutely, could do it (for the small number like yourself capable of appreciating it). And it wouldn't positively alienate people unlearned in the languages in question (for whom the sounds are just gibberish).

They might have to work harder to find capable voice actors. Can all Russian speakers speak Russian as though by a native German speaker? Or do you look for a native German speaker who later learned Russian?

A lot of effort for the small number of people who could appreciate it.

Yeah, I'm not sure of the level of effort. My point is that this is something they did successfully in VI and here, at least for Catherine, it wasn't pursued.
 
A lot of effort for the small number of people who could appreciate it.
And I think this is the difference between CdM and Catherine the Great. A lot of Anglophones are at least somewhat familiar with what French sounds like and can probably sense something is off about CdM's French, even if they can't put their finger on it. Not as many Anglophones are that sensitive to Russian. Also, I have no numbers to back me up on this, but it's entirely possible that finding an Italian who speaks French with an accent is easier than finding a German who speaks Russian badly. (Which makes sense. Switzerland exists, after all.)
 
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