Immortal Shadow Game - Suryavarman II of Khmer

[sampsa]

your T124 comments

Spoiler :

Honestly that position is closer to won than hopeless. You have some troops, you have the ability to produce more, what's the problem? I think you could've just started troop production in ex-russian lands earlier. I'm not planning to build barracks' even, let alone stables... Just emphasize everywhere and whip away mediocre tiles. You have experienced axes sacrificed as city police. Replace them with archers (or something cheap) and get those veterans to the front line asap. Take cities from Joao, capitulate when available.

I think you can take the golden age now, switch to rep+vassalage. Alternatively if you can get CoL quickly start the GA when you can run merchants, trying to get at least 2GM for money. I have no idea why you are teching aesth. Fail gold? Not worth it IMO.

 

[antimony]

You have less catapults, you should build those exclusively until you're about 50/50 siege/non-siege. You should probably build either units or wealth, not libraries or stables.

Don't research Aesthetics yet, someone will trade it to you by the time you need to bulb Engi. After whipping a few cats (instead of those elephants) I would switch to vassalage+rep and take the 1 turn of anarchy.

 

[antimony]

To vassalize Joao you probably need to take at least 4 cities and make him drop to the bottom half of the AIs in terms of score and power rating, before he gets longbows. There is a risk he makes China or Sumeria join the war against you, though I'm not sure what do to about it.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Spoiler :

Honestly that position is closer to won than hopeless.

I really hope you're right. Let's find out.

You have some troops, you have the ability to produce more, what's the problem? I think you could've just started troop production in ex-russian lands earlier. I'm not planning to build barracks' even, let alone stables... Just emphasize everywhere and whip away mediocre tiles. You have experienced axes sacrificed as city police. Replace them with archers (or something cheap) and get those veterans to the front line asap. Take cities from Joao, capitulate when available.

I think you can take the golden age now, switch to rep+vassalage. Alternatively if you can get CoL quickly start the GA when you can run merchants, trying to get at least 2GM for money.

All good points. Thanks. I'll give it a shot.

I have no idea why you are teching aesth. Fail gold? Not worth it IMO.

As Antimony mentioned, I took it because it's stopping me from bulbing Engineering.

You have less catapults, you should build those exclusively until you're about 50/50 siege/non-siege. You should probably build either units or wealth, not libraries or stables.

Don't research Aesthetics yet, someone will trade it to you by the time you need to bulb Engi. After whipping a few cats (instead of those elephants) I would switch to vassalage+rep and take the 1 turn of anarchy.

Right. Thanks also.

 

[sampsa]

T100

Spoiler :

Got currency next and very soon made an extra 10pt from sold resources (plus 2 per city from trade routes of course). The -situation turned bad due to war unhappiness, but having 2-3 temporary unhappy faces can be tolerated. Planning to get the 2nd GS out from fur-city. Starting a golden age then to change to HR+vassalage. Too bad Mids are not in Moscow in my game (but in Lisbon I think?), that would've made everything so much easier.

Keep the silver spot for the extra . The city will pay for itself I think building wealth. Should be able to take Stalin out in 3T. Can get monarchy via trade next turn but won't be switching to HR yet. Adding HAs now (even 0xp), I think they are excellent at this point as I have strong guys to take the tough fights and all I need is some mobile troops to take easier fights. I guess I'm going Washington-Gilg-Joao-Bella and haven't even found where Qin is yet.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

T158

Spoiler Advisor screens and game commentary - no map spoilers :

So, Joao finally capitulated. I was able to pick up some techs in the agreement, but I'm still terribly behind. I obviously became too tunnel-visioned during the wars, and neglected everything for the sake of whipping more troops.

As a result, I'm losing money at 0%, even with most cities building wealth (or about to).

The only thing going for me at this point, is a comparatively strong military, but if I don't put it to good use soon, I'm going to drown.

I do still have a golden age up my sleeve (I never used my GS because I completely forgot about it when my game crashed. As an aside, it has never done that before - ever - but since I installed BUFFY it has crashed multiple times. Is there a known issue with the mod?). So I'm about to switch over to Caste System and try to get a couple of GMs.

If I continue my warmongering, I think Gilgamesh is my next target, followed by Washington.

Still, I feel like it's quite a precarious position.

 

[sampsa]

As an aside, it has never done that before - ever - but since I installed BUFFY it has crashed multiple times.

Hmm no, BUFFY has never crashed for me.

comments

Spoiler :

Don't underestimate the golden age! It might save you. "Net foreign income" only 6? Can't you sell more resources? Honestly you aren't even behind in tech yet, but obviously you will fall behind.

Being in the negative isn't a bad thing if you can win the war. Btw you can also pillage tiles for . Horse units are excellent for this as they have more movement.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Spoiler reply :

"Net foreign income" only 6?

Ok. I got it up to 16. Much better. I could get 5 more, but I'd have to give away my only gold, and that doesn't sound worth it.

Honestly you aren't even behind in tech yet, but obviously you will fall behind.

How do you figure that? Everyone has techs that I don't. I only have one tech that two AIs don't. I'd be curious to know how that shouldn't be defined as "behind".

Being in the negative isn't a bad thing if you can win the war.

Yeah, I was running a deficit for second half of that war. The need for capture gold was pushing my army forward. It's amazing how motivated they become when you tell them they need to capture a city or they don't get paid.

Horse units are excellent for this as they have more movement.

Good point. I'll build a few before starting the next war.

 

[sampsa]

behind in tech definition

Spoiler :

For me, you are behind in the when you have nothing on any AI or can not quickly get any tech they don't have, because that means you can't trade to catch up. I would not count fishing, religious line, aesth line even. Do those techs really matter? You have CoL on some, some of them have mach/philo/paper on you. Not a huge deal.

Maybe you can get stuff like machinery as a part of capitulation deal? In my game I was able to pillage for hundreds of , it really makes a difference.

 

[antimony]

BUFFY often crashes on me if I reload a game while being in game (instead of exiting to main menu and then loading save), but not otherwise.

Do you have a save?

 

[sampsa]

T115 (1AD)

Spoiler :

Knocked Stalin out, declared on Wash 2T later, capped after 2 cities (just got feud!) and got MC in peace deal which was awesome (no, not for forges ). Captured GLH, but it's not very relevant. Started the GA immediately. +2 xp might help a bit, +1 certainly helps and +1/+1 per tile is something. Of course, this is not the usual use for the golden age, but it's the best I have I guess. I am quite a bit ahead in tech, they barely have currency.

Cities produce mostly units until the end of the game (even baray in cap is probably just a bad build). Chopping ex-russian lands is a priority. Calendar online soon (vassal will get it) and get some more . Whipping heavily only in fish/cow, but probably will do a round of whips at engi. Then guilds, probably the last tech I want, then spend on upgrade HA->knight.

Ready to declare on Giggly next turn, ready to take Circassian and Kish first. Maybe Ur also, it's defended by a cat...

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

BUFFY often crashes on me if I reload a game while being in game (instead of exiting to main menu and then loading save), but not otherwise.

Do you have a save?

Yeah. Since I started getting serious about beating Immortal, I changed the .ini file to keep all the autosaves. My hard drive is getting bloated, but I only lost one turn worth of work.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

T115 (1AD)

Wow. Really wow.

Spoiler T159 Info screen :

 

[antimony]

Sorry, I meant could you share a save here for your T159.

That's a lot of lost catapults. Maybe many of them from attacking into longbows, however. Do you always bombard down the defenses?

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Sorry, I meant could you share a save here for your T159.

lol. Sorry. Sure.

That's a lot of lost catapults. Maybe many of them from attacking into longbows, however. Do you always bombard down the defenses?

It is quite a lot, isn't it? I spend a turn or two bombarding, but that doesn't always completely eliminate the defenses. And yeah, by the time I hit Joao, I was up against longbows - quite a few of them in hill cities.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Well. That was unexpected...

Spoiler T219 :

The closest I've ever come to a Diplomatic Victory, and I wasn't even trying.

This, however, was planned...

Spoiler T225 - I'm still surprised, though :

Obviously, by no stretch of the imagination was this an independent victory, but it's the closest I've ever come on Immortal, so I'm calling it an achievement. A personal best, in fact. The only other immortal victory this computer has ever seen was a couple of weeks ago when Henrik coached me to an overwhelming position. I still couldn't beat the map on my own though.

There were certainly a lot of tense moments. I almost lost the Sumerian war due to lack of funds. I was, however, able to get a GM into Madrid the turn before everyone went on strike, and he capitulated two turns later. My financial position was so dire, that even with almost all cities building wealth, I was losing 100gpt or more. I decided to push on, and it obviously paid off.

With Portugal and Sumeria under my belt, I had to decide who to attack next. All three were in different directions, and I didn't want to get stabbed in the back while my army was out of position. Thanks to the link sampsa posted earlier (Know Your Enemy thread), the decision was easy. Isabella and Washington were both pleased with me, but only one of them would attack at that level. China was a bit further away, so I'd have some time to redeploy if they made a move.

Spain fell easily, then China. They each capitulated after losing only two or three cities. I'm kind of glad that was enough to get the win. Washington only had six or seven cities, but he still outstripped me in power. I didn't want to have to fight him.

For those keeping score at home, Fur City ended the game with 52 turns of stacked whip unhappiness remaining (it was well over 100 before I switched to building wealth).

Spoiler T225 Demographics :

Spoiler T225 Statistics :

Spoiler My place in history :

This may well be the highest score I've ever achieved. There is no way to know because all my other victories seem to have been erased when I installed BUFFY, and before that, BUG. Let's all just pretend this is a good score for a minute, ok?

Spoiler The next step :

It seems to me that the next step is to play a bit on my own and see if I've actually learned anything. I'll try some new maps, then I've got about of year's worth of failed save games filed away, that I promised myself I'd go back and wreak my revenge on if I ever improved. I might try a couple of those.

In reality, though, I'll probably be back here looking for more help.

I'd like, at this point to express significant gratitude to @sampsa and @antimony. I couldn't have done it without you. Many thanks!

 

[antimony]

This is really good! Trebuchet wars are a pain when the AI gets castles, I would have gone to cannons myself from your previous position, it seems you handled the thin line between domination and bankruptcy really well!

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Thanks.

There was no way I was ever getting to cannons. At least, not before the AI had rifles (or worse). Once I realised that I'd messed up somewhere along the way and I'd have to get philosophy before I could bulb engineering (I must have accidentally accepted some religion techs at some point), I decided to trade for fishing (to get a couple of cities access to food and a bit of ), bulb philosophy, and switch to pacifism. It was too late in the GA to make much difference, but I did eventually get the GM that saved my backside.

Definitely seat-of-my-pants moments in there, but I was able to assess what resources I had, based in no small part to the advice I've received here in the last two games (I don't think adopting pacifism would even have occurred to me last week and it was pivotal to getting the Merchant exactly when I needed him). There's a lot to be said about not panicking.

 

[sampsa]

Wonderful! As you see, you can plow through a lot if you just have enough units.

Of course there are still a lot of things to handle better - I think worker management is one big area. 1.improve food 2.chop 3.cottage 4.connect will get you far. Capturing a lot of forest in the first war means the workers should be chopping those forests asap.

 

[Gunboat Diplomat]

Of course there are still a lot of things to handle better

That's for certain! I straight-up lost my next two games.

I think worker management is one big area.

I think you're right. I'm taking a bit of a break right now, but if I don't get it right when I return, I'll have to do another shadow game. If I do get it right, then I'll see you in the NC games.