New L.o.t.R scenario: 'The Return of the King'

[Mercator]

I think the disappearing happens when one of your units ends up at a square together with a "No go" unit. The unit's still there, you just don't see it.

I've tried to play it a few times now, and it IS superb, especially the graphics. Not to mention the "timers", an absolutely marvellous idea! I was actually thinking about such a timed event myself a little while ago, but I had no idea how to accomplish them... Now I do!

But unfortunately I don't think I'm good enough. The bad guys always walk right over Minas Tirith and I can't possibly capture "Osgiliath". I don't have much luck with the Gap of Rohan either. Non-hero units not behind city walls just can't cope with those damned Trolls. Help!

The first time I played, one of the clues was indeed disbanded (the Cirith Ungol one), so I couldn't properly finish the scenario anymore (but then again, the time limit was already over anyway).

And yet more complaints ... I guess you hoped the change terrain events kill units, but they don't, they just become invisible (and they're visible again once moved).

Is it just me, or is there's a chronic lack of cash and production, so reinforcements come late. And whenever a city falls (or Minas Tirith is besieged) the upkeep usually becomes too large to handle (even after disbanding quite a few improvements)...

And finally, how about some new city improvement icon graphics.

 

[FavouredFlight]

Originally posted by Mercator
I think the disappearing happens when one of your units ends up at a square together with a "No go" unit. The unit's still there, you just don't see it.

You're absolutely right. That can happen, but only if you fortify the unit - otherwise it'll flash when it comes to it's turn. I needed the "no go" units to stop enemy units destroying clues and wandering where they shouldn't - so I can't really get rid of them - without the "no go" the scenario is a no-no!

I've tried to play it a few times now, and it IS superb, especially the graphics. Not to mention the "timers", an absolutely marvellous idea! I was actually thinking about such a timed event myself a little while ago, but I had no idea how to accomplish them... Now I do!

I've thought of ways of extending this so that multiple outcomes are available on a timed event. Don't know if I'll get the chance to try it out though.

But unfortunately I don't think I'm good enough. The bad guys always walk right over Minas Tirith and I can't possibly capture "Osgiliath". I don't have much luck with the Gap of Rohan either. Non-hero units not behind city walls just can't cope with those damned Trolls. Help!

Did you check out the cheat.html?
I got to the point where I was winning two times out of three at Deity level. So I thought the gameplay was pretty balanced. I didn't want Sauron to be a walk over - he is the Dark Lord after all.

The first time I played, one of the clues was indeed disbanded (the Cirith Ungol one), so I couldn't properly finish the scenario anymore (but then again, the time limit was already over anyway).

I'm fairly convinced that's something to do with the amount of units in play, as I've stated elsewhere. Sorry, there's really nothing I can do about that.

And yet more complaints ... I guess you hoped the change terrain events kill units, but they don't, they just become invisible (and they're visible again once moved).

The change terrain event does kill them (...most of the time!)
Yet again, one of those Civ2 things that I have no real control over.

Is it just me, or is there's a chronic lack of cash and production, so reinforcements come late. And whenever a city falls (or Minas Tirith is besieged) the upkeep usually becomes too large to handle (even after disbanding quite a few improvements)...

It's just you...
...heheh! On the first turn try this:
1. Change the Tax rate to 60%
2. Change Minas Tirith and Pelargir production to Militia.
3. Pay to complete the units being made in Minas Tirith, Pelargir and Linhir.
4. Withdraw the ranger unit and Faramir from Osgiliath. Put them in Minas Tirith and fortify them.
On turn two:
1.Fortify the new units appearing at Minas Tirith and Pelargir. Send the new unit and one of the fortified units at Linhir to help out at Pelargir.
After that... just keep sending troops from all over Gondor to aid both Minas Tirith and Pelargir.
Tip: Send Knights of Dol Amroth to sit in Minas Tirith and Pelargir. When they are completely healthy attack the nearest enemy unit. But, don't move your knights out of the protection of the city. (You can kill up to 4 enemy units at a time this way!)
Tip: When you have a few militia units spare in a city, try disbanding them and buying a ranger. Then fortify the ranger. Rangers are almost impossible to overcome while defending a city.
At the gap of Rohan: try to fortify and defend the hills on and near the road. Once again, use mounted units to make swift attacks along the road then withdraw them out of harms way.

Hope that helps! It worked for me.

And finally, how about some new city improvement icon graphics.

There's just no pleasing some people.
I did some new icons for wonders. But, to be honest I never thought about city improvement icons. I kind of like the ones already there.

 

[Ankka]

The scenario is great! I played it and saw one little thing. In the books The Battle of Pelennor begins much later.
Helms deep and Isengard have been won, and Gandalf and Pippin are at Minas Tirith when th ebattle begins .
Now the battle is already beginning when the Company is in Dimrill Dale... But anyway, unbelieveably good scenario!!!

Wizard

 

[FavouredFlight]

Originally posted by Wizard
The scenario is great! I played it and saw one little thing. In the books The Battle of Pelennor begins much later.
Helms deep and Isengard have been won, and Gandalf and Pippin are at Minas Tirith when th ebattle begins .
Now the battle is already beginning when the Company is in Dimrill Dale... But anyway, unbelieveably good scenario!!!
Wizard

If Peter Jackson can get away with changes then so can I.
I think it plays better the way I've done it. Imagine sitting around in Minas Tirith waiting until turn 45 for the Battle to kick off.

 

[Leowind]

Imagine sitting around in Minas Tirith waiting until turn 45 for the Battle to kick off.

That's what I'm doing right now. I immediately withdrew Faramir and the Ranger to the wall, built more Rangers, and fortified them on the wall, waiting for the onslaught from Osgiliath. It is day 31 and I have not been attacked even once I have the wall fully fortified with rangers all the way around, two Knights waiting one square back to counterattack, and two Siege towers on the wall to attack anything that shows up, but there has been no attack. Aragorn and the dead riders (forget what they're called) are on their way there now, so will begin my own attack soon

 

[FavouredFlight]

Originally posted by Leowind
That's what I'm doing right now. I immediately withdrew Faramir and the Ranger to the wall, built more Rangers, and fortified them on the wall, waiting for the onslaught from Osgiliath. It is day 31 and I have not been attacked even once I have the wall fully fortified with rangers all the way around, two Knights waiting one square back to counterattack, and two Siege towers on the wall to attack anything that shows up, but there has been no attack. Aragorn and the dead riders (forget what they're called) are on their way there now, so will begin my own attack soon

Ooooooh!
That's not right. Minas Tirith should have been under attack from day one.
Are you by chance playing on a Mac?

 

[Leowind]

Mac? Good old clunky PC with windows 95
They keep sending units onto the ford one square past the fort, but have not advanced any farther than that. The sure did in my first game. Don't tell me this is a bug and this game isn't going to count

 

[Mercator]

I think it's simply the AI... I'm playing another game myself now, and it's going much better. Rangers are great , and I'm starting to realise that it might be a good idea to put defenders on the Pelennor, since it has a defensive bonus. I used to withdraw everything to the city, which meant the entire city radius got swamped, reducing the food and production in Minas Tirith to next to nothing. This is also the first time I found out about the Paths of the Dead, I must've missed them the other times, and I used to lose Edoras before the muster of Rohan, so I didn't get any of the units there either, but now I do!

The AI has a tendency to follow your units, which is probably why they're not attacking you, Leowind, because they can't see any of your units (are you playing at Deity?)... At Isengard, I first waited for the onslaught, then I lost most defensive units to Trolls and I pulled back East towards the Entwash with my cavalry. Most of the Orcs followed me there, until I disappeared behind the safety of the "No go" units. That gave me enough time to increase the defense of Edoras, and Aragorn and friends had enough time to fend off the Trolls and unleash the Ents.

I'm having fun with it ... I got over the first frustration of being slaughtered at Minas Tirith and Edoras the previous games... Now let's hope this time Sam and Frodo won't bump into a host of Orcs right after the Dead Marshes.

 

[The ANZAC]

This was a fun scenario. Only one thing: the battle of Pelennor ddin't seem to be noticeable It didn't seem as though I was under any more or less pressure Is this a bug? The battle just seemed too easy...But otherwise, this scenario was great and a lot of fun.

 

[Mercator]

That's because there is no battle of the Pelennor, or more precisely, it starts from the beginning and ends when you stop it.

 

[FavouredFlight]

Originally posted by Mercator
That's because there is no battle of the Pelennor, or more precisely, it starts from the beginning and ends when you stop it.

That's what should happen and always did happen as I playtested it.
I suppose 'officially' the battle starts on turn 45 when the Witch-King appears. But, he has no extra troops with him (there's just no event file space left!). I don't think that's out of keeping with Tolkien though. By the time the Witch-King got to the gates of the city it was pretty much over for hm anyway -- "The darkness was breaking too soon, before the date that his master had set for it... ...victory was slipping from his grasp even as he stretched out his hand to seize it."

 

[The ANZAC]

OK, makes sense. I just didn't notice my forces getting thrown back up through Minas Tirith's 7 concentric walls

 

[Leowind]

The AI has a tendency to follow your units, which is probably why they're not attacking you, Leowind, because they can't see any of your units (are you playing at Deity?)...

I think you're right (and yes I'm on Deity). I finally moved a Knight out and attacked the units stacked on the ford, then they started coming all the way to the Pelennor, where my Knights, fortified Rangers, and Siege towers slaughtered them I've pushed my defenses into the forests and the ford in front of Osgiliath now, and the dead have just arrived outside Minas Tirith. The Ents are moving through the pass towards Isengard, Gandalf, Gimli, Legolas, and some Knights/Heavy Cavalry are advancing up the South road to Isengard. Frodo/Sam are just leaving the marshes. All looks good

 

[Leowind]

FF hope you're still monitoring this thread. There have been at least 4 games of this scenario played on my computer now (not all by me), and not once has the Frodo/Sam unit reappeared after Tolech Ungol. The game I finished last night went picture perfect. Frodo/Sam/Gollum attacked the clue in the pass on turn 44, and by turn 60, end of the scenario, had not reappeared. I captured Minas Morgul and had Barad dur surounded, but no ring to destroy in Mt. Doom BTW, did you realise Aragorn can pass through the pass too?
It was a fun scenario, and the graphics are outstanding (except the buffalo), but its disappointing to not really be able to end it.

 

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Leowind
(except the buffalo)

Yes... I noticed that too, FF must've overlooked that one.

By the way, FF, did you use MapEdit to help remove the resources? I didn't really realise they were removed, until I opened the scenario in MapEdit (and the dark shades suddenly hit me ).

 

[Kubz]

FF Great scenario. It would have been great had you created a .bat file and had different parts of the scenario like your previous one. That would have solved the lack of event room.

 

[FavouredFlight]

Originally posted by Mercator


Yes... I noticed that too, FF must've overlooked that one.

By the way, FF, did you use MapEdit to help remove the resources? I didn't really realise they were removed, until I opened the scenario in MapEdit (and the dark shades suddenly hit me ).

I certainly did use MapEdit. It's a very handy piece of kit... 'don't leave home without it!'
I left a few animals on Terrain1.gif that don't appear in the game at all. I figured, if they weren't used -- what the hey!

 

[FavouredFlight]

Originally posted by Kubz
FF Great scenario. It would have been great had you created a .bat file and had different parts of the scenario like your previous one. That would have solved the lack of event room.

Ah... just not possible.
I was able to do that in the Moria scenario because the game was essentially a long corridor. The ROTK scenario is too wide open. There would have been no way of guessing which events the player had or hadn't already set off.

 

[FavouredFlight]

Originally posted by Leowind
FF hope you're still monitoring this thread. There have been at least 4 games of this scenario played on my computer now (not all by me), and not once has the Frodo/Sam unit reappeared after Tolech Ungol. The game I finished last night went picture perfect. Frodo/Sam/Gollum attacked the clue in the pass on turn 44, and by turn 60, end of the scenario, had not reappeared. I captured Minas Morgul and had Barad dur surounded, but no ring to destroy in Mt. Doom BTW, did you realise Aragorn can pass through the pass too?
It was a fun scenario, and the graphics are outstanding (except the buffalo), but its disappointing to not really be able to end it.

Your computer frightens me.

You must be the only person I ever heard of who surrounded Barad-dur! I can only think of one way to do it but never thought anyone would be able to do it. In fact, I think that you're only able to do it because of the problems you're havng finishing the game (that is, if you're getting into Mordor the way I think you are).

Ah, you spotted my white lie. It's true... Aragorn can get through the pass behind Minas Morgul. You see, both that pass and the paths of the dead work via the same method. There's no getting around it I afraid. The Civ 2 engine is just too simplistic.

I'm really sorry you have been having trouble finishing the game. I tell you what, send me your save game file that's closest to the point where Frodo and Sam are about to go over the pass. I'll see if I can work it out.

 

[Yop73]

FF, what will your next scen be about?