New Leader Traits?

[Ovidian]

I bought Civ 4 a couple of months ago and haven't slept since. I've been reading this board for the same amount of time but never really spoke up. The website is fantastic and the community here is quite articulate and intelligent. I look forward to contributing. Anyway...on to the post...

Everyone seems quite excited, in one way or another, about the new Warlords expansion. People are trying to guess the new civilizations, leaders, and units. Yet, the one thing that really stood out to me were the "two new leader traits." And oddly, no one seems to be discussing this.

Now this is my first Civ game, so I have no past knowledge to draw from. I did sort of look over past games through this website, but I didn't really see anything. Maybe everyone knows what these traits are going to be except for me...

So, if anyone has any ideas, I would love to hear them. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for new units and civilizations and whatever, but I'm really thinking that these two new leader traits will have a bigger impact upon the overall game.

Thanks,
~Ovidian

 

[Bevertje]

I don't like the traits in this game, they are too unbalanced...

industrious, financial, spiritual are far more enpowered than the others

 

[Sahkuhnder]

Welcome to CFC.

Civ3 had an agricultural trait that was nice, and a seafaring one too, so I could venture a totally wild and unfounded guess that those may be one or both of the new traits.

 

[Alter Ego]

The best suggestions I have seen are Seafaring and Charismatic (diplomatic/happiness bonus). The latter could be difficult to balance for MP though.

 

[Chieftess]

I don't like the traits in this game, they are too unbalanced...

industrious, financial, spiritual are far more enpowered than the others

Can you elaborate?

 

[woodelf]

I've changed industrious and financial personally. Now Industrial gives +1 hammer on tiles with 3 already. The 50% Wonder is ludicrous. And I nerfed financial to +1 gold on tiles with 3, not 2. Spiritual is underpowered so I changed the anarchy to 2 turns without it. The game is beautiful to mod.

 

[Arms Longfellow]

I hope they don't make Seafaring one of the traits. I hated it in Civ 3, because it is so situational. What if you're playing Pangea map? Or you end up getting landlocked? And of course, it goes the other way of being too powerful on an islands map.

If seafaring does make an appearance again, I'll be sure to avoid civilizations that have it once again.

 

[SkippyT]

I heard someone mention Charmistic, and I think that's a pretty good idea. But what buildings would it be +50% faster?

Leaders with Charmistic would be perhaps Elizabeth, Catherine, Hatshepsut, Louis XIV, Saladin (maybe not but he was very diplomatic..). If Byzantines will be in, Princess Theodora would be charmistic, also.

Liz: Charmistic/Philosophical
Caths: Finincial/Charmistic
Hatshy: Charmistic/Industrious (Hatshepsut should b.t.w. really be industrious and creative, not spiritual..)
Lou: Creative/Charmistic
Saladin: Charmistic/Spiritual
(Theodora of The Byzantine Empire): Charmistic/Seafaring
(Maggy of The Kalmar Union [Scandinavia]): Charmistic/Expansive

But what about Aggressive/Charmistic combo.. maybe Napoleon?, or Huyana Capac..? This is a tough one.

Seafaring:

Vicky: Finincial/Seafaring
(William of Orange [Holland]): Seafaring/Expansive
Izzy: Spiritual/Seafaring
(Theodora of The Byzantine Empire): Seafaring/Charmistic
(Hannibal of Carthago): Seafaring/Industrious
(Agamemnon of Greece): Seafaring/Aggressive

...
any more ideas??

 

[7th Circle]

The best suggestions I have seen are Seafaring and Charismatic (diplomatic/happiness bonus). The latter could be difficult to balance for MP though.

Maybe if Charismatic only had happiness consequences. Of course, Charismatic/Expansive could make for an overpowered combo given the fast start capabilities.

SkippyT, wouldn't Hannibal get Aggressive? Or do you say the fact that he didn't march on Rome discounts this?

 

[SkippyT]

I placed Agamemnon with Aggressive and Vicky with finincial, so I didn't know what he'd get, really. Perhaps he'd get the Aggressive, Agamemnon the Expansive and William of Orange the Industrious.. I don't really know

 

[player1 fanatic]

The best suggestions I have seen are Seafaring and Charismatic (diplomatic/happiness bonus). The latter could be difficult to balance for MP though.

Well, if it only affected war wariness and happines bonus it would be ok for MP too.

 

[Skyrim]

I heard someone mention Charmistic, and I think that's a pretty good idea. But what buildings would it be +50% faster?

i guess it would be theaters and colloseums etc.

 

[Rex Tyrannus]

SkippyT, wouldn't Hannibal get Aggressive? Or do you say the fact that he didn't march on Rome discounts this?

If I remember correctly, Hannibal didn't march on Rome because leaders in Carthage wouldn't send reinforcements. Might be wrong, though.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned, anyone who takes over another country (Spain) just to make a staging area for war on another (Rome), then marches elephants through the Alps--to back-door said other country--gets aggressive in my book.

 

[Sparta]

I'd agree that seafaring was a frustratingly situational trait, and I don't see how you could balance a relationship bonus for people who play multi either. Moreover, I almost hope that they don't redo agricultural as a trait, or if so at least re-balance or nerf it. As it was in C3C, it was grossly overpowered, IMHO. +1 food in every city is practically equivalent to starting each city with a goldless merchant super specialist. C3C agricultural was so much more powerful than any other trait, I was addicted to it towards the end of my playing Civ3 (see avatar (Iroquois may have been slightly better, but I'm Irish)).

@Julius Caesar (above): "Vae Victis"

(Just kidding around; here's a latin line you might like, rex tyranus: "Ultima Ratio Regum": Louis XIV had it inscribed on all of his cannon, latin for "The final argument of kings".)

 

[Chesster]

I like Gettingfat's idea of Adaptive from here.

Adaptive: Leaders who perservere and make the most out of difficult situations. +1 shield in jungle tiles and workable tundra tiles, +1 gold in workable desert tiles. Half cost building hospitals and recycling plant.

 

[balthamael]

Cool idea, i hate desert and jungle!

 

[Sahkuhnder]

I second that, great idea!

 

[Guerra]

I don't like that Saladin is Spiritual.

Something like Financial would have been better, no one ran a desert economy like he did.

 

[SkippyT]

But he is the Arabian leader and got Jerusalem for the muslims, so that makes him probably the most spiritual leader in Civilization. Well, perhaps behind Isabella cause she's a freak in the game. I don't see why she's so intrusive about religion. Saladin should, surely, an he was also a "philosopher", a thinker. Isn't Mansa Musa Spiritual/Finincial? Well, he shouldn't really have Spiritual I think. If anyone shouldn't have some abilities, it's Mansa with Spiritual and Hatshepsut with Spiritual/Creative, in stead of Industrious/Creative, but that would be a killer culture victory combo. So I don't know what to say..

 

[Older than Dirt]

If they would just put Hitler in then we could have the "Flatulence" trait. The effect would be to cause all of his culture output to go to zero. All great people (who of course are Jewish) immediately migrate to the civ which is most hostile to Hitler.