New mechanism for BarbarianCiv

[jdog5000]

I've put a config option in the BarbarianCiv section of Revolution.ini for 1.3 and later which now gives you pretty thorough control over the state of the new world. There are 5 different options, though if you're looking for "historical" then probably the default (1) or option 2 are the way to go. Option 1 slows forming of minor civs in the new world and gives them fewer starting bonuses. They can still become full civs however. Option 2 is similar, but the minor civs can't become full civs until an explorer shows up. This means they'll be constantly at war with each other, which should keep them from expanding as much. The higher options keep minor civs from forming before outsiders show up or colonize. Option 0 treats the new world the same as the old world, so it's like 1 without any penalties.

The exact situation in the new world will vary from game to game and also depends heavily on when you get there. Based on my tests on large maps, with the default setting at around 1500 there are between two and four small civs, several barb cities, and some empty space. The more time ticks by, another couple civs will show up and the others will expand. By 1800 the only real space left are Caribbean like islands or tundra lands. Usually I see a couple of AIs make some claims in the new world, but it depends a lot on the diplomatic and space situation in the old world ... cramped civs tend to really want to expand into the new world, big wars keep AIs from contemplating sending out colonists.

If you have ideas for how the handling of the new world could be better or at least the config options increased, definitely post. I also find Terra maps to be particularly fun to play with.

 

[BobTheTerrible]

Option 2 is similar, but the minor civs can't become full civs until an explorer shows up.

I logged onto this board to post that very suggestion. Awesome! How big is the window of time between contact and transforming into a full civ?

 

[jdog5000]

Right now that window is of length 0, as soon as "Old world" units land in the new world then the civs can start to settle down. You raise a good point, since settling is not probabilistic but is accomplishment based, there will probably be a rash of settling into full civs on the turn explorers land ...

Maybe I'll change this option so that once the explorers land there's a chance for each minor civ will have its accomplishments analyzed. I'll create a config variable that lets you specify the 'half-life' of these minor civs, ie the average number of turns until they settle.

You comment also made me think of a new, similar option which would be based on the number of old world civs the minors had met ... it'd work like the new idea above, except that the number of old world civs they'd met would increase their odds of settling down.

That's two good ideas precipitated from basically a two sentence post! That's efficiency for you ...

 

[BobTheTerrible]

Maybe I'll change this option so that once the explorers land there's a chance for each minor civ will have its accomplishments analyzed. I'll create a config variable that lets you specify the 'half-life' of these minor civs, ie the average number of turns until they settle.

How about an option that will prevent them from settling down until one of the Old World civs conquers a city of theirs? The idea being once a city is captured, they realize they need a great leader to organize them (and the other old world civs who see the city get captured realize this too).

 

[StormLord-711-]

I like this idea. It's pretty similar to the events actually happening in the new world, with the huge alliances like the Iroquois not being contemplated until natives were threatened. Although it wouldn't allow nations like the Aztecs or Incas (although those only really came into power right before European exploration- close enough for now I guess).

And thanks Jdog for making several settings available for this subject. I'll have to see what I like best.

 

[glider1]

Really enjoying the latest incarnations on Barbciv. It will take some time to fully appreciate all the subtleties Love the distinction between barbs, minors and full civs plus some sensitivity to historical context.

Got a question about this feature in 1.31:
"Adjusted barb city placement to emphasize placing in areas with other players early in game, less so later as map fills up"

This one seems initially controversial to me because my understanding was that barb civ emergence is more tied to bountiful resource opportunities leading to birth and growth. However I wouldn't be surprised if Jdog was thinking along real world lines with this chang as well. Although I have no qualifications in human history, I guess that culture in all it's various forms, tends to spread by osmosis, to the barbarians that exist closer to a real civ, thus giving credence to this change in 1.31?

Cheers and a big thanks for this component!

 

[jdog5000]

"Areas" has a fairly specific meaning to me as a modder that may not be transparent ... for those that don't know, a CvArea object is a group of connected tiles that are all either water or land. If you're playing a Terra map, then there are two big land areas and other little islands that are also their own area.

So, barb cities don't settle closer to other civ cities exactly, but they'll first settle on continents were there are other players. As the map fills up, then you'll start to see them colonize empty continents or islands.

Placement is also now less random and more weighted based on the quality of the land around the start position so that the new civs will be more competitive and, as you were mentioning glider, it makes sense historically for cities to form in "good" places ...

Hope that clarifies what the changes really are.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Yes, in the future, perhaps you should use the word "continent" instead of "area" when explaining it to the lay people...

I also didn't realize that areas pertained to water tiles. I thought they only referred to land.

 

[glider1]

On another topic, you heard the latest on how homo-sapiens spread? There was contention between whether the species spread out of Africa or simultaneously emerged on various continents. According to the DNA and archeological evidence, it seems that they started spreading from a single area in central north Africa about 60,000 years ago, and then in a period of only 5500 years, moved east and followed the coastal fringe of southern Arabia, then India, then along the coast into Indonesia, did some island hopping and ended up in Australia. Only then did they start colonising central asia and europe. So the coastal fringe seems to be the key to the quick march.

Thanks for the feedback on what is an "area"!
Cheers.

 

[jdog5000]

Yes, in the future, perhaps you should use the word "continent" instead of "area" when explaining it to the lay people...

I also didn't realize that areas pertained to water tiles. I thought they only referred to land.

I'm not entirely sure how it applies to water tiles, since it's never really come up. But I believe it applies to them as well, so a lake would be an area for sure. What I don't know about are the oceans ... all one area I guess.