New Mod: "Bigger, Better Worlds"

[DB_in_Omaha]

Originally posted by Lachlan
I'm against your rules back for food

Noted.

I may still play with raising the food consumption. I like the idea in theory; I just couldn't get it to work in practice the way I really wanted it to.

-- Darryl

 

[Cuivienen]

Just one tiny question: Why was the Mediterannean culture group eliminated? And, to add to that, why are the Byzantines Mid-East and not European? (Carthaginians and Egyptians I can understand as Mid-East, though I still think that the Mediterannean civs have too little in common with others and too much in common with each other not to be a separate culture group.)

One other comment: The lux and science sliders reset to a total of 50% between each turn, even from below 50%. (I had science at 10% and Lux at 10% near the beginning and the sliders reset to 40 and 10 every turn. If I decreased the Lux to 0, the Science slider would return to 50.) Is there any reason that this happens?

 

[EL_OSO]

I have a question regarding the rate cap on tech research for the new governments. I'm not sure if you changed this or not in the patch.

I'm devious with my tactics when I play in order to dominate the opposition. I researched Oligarchy first and then traded it to my neighbors for other techs that I didn't have. They were dumb enough to switch to it out of Despotism while I waited until I had Monarchy researched. Needless to say, I managed to build every wonder barring the government wonders in the middle ages and eliminate my neighbors with ease. I'm playing on the biggest map with 23 opponents. Well, lets say 21 opponents now.

I'd like to try these new governments but I don't think I ever will willingly cripple my ability to research technology. I can deal with it in despotism but I think you should reduce the others that precede the ones availabe in the Industrial Age or get rid of it all together. Either that or make the research time for Monarchy a lot longer than it already is.

I'm playing on regent level with normal aggression for the AI.

The spy is a really cool unit. The AI seems to like these a lot and builds tons of them. I've kept mine in my cities so far. I have the iroquois and the UU is built for a speedy assault. I've just had to deal with these hidden flank attacks but they're easily defeated so far.

 

[DB_in_Omaha]

Originally posted by Cuivienen
Just one tiny question: Why was the Mediterannean culture group eliminated? And, to add to that, why are the Byzantines Mid-East and not European? (Carthaginians and Egyptians I can understand as Mid-East, though I still think that the Mediterannean civs have too little in common with others and too much in common with each other not to be a separate culture group.)

I had to eliminate one of the culture groups in order to allow the Saurians (in "BBW, with Dinos") to have dinosaur citizen heads. I couldn't introduce a sixth culture; I had to replace one of the existing five.

To be honest, I'm surprised you even noticed. Culture groups have always seemed to me to be rather pointless in the game, other than to allow some civs' cities and citizens look different from others (and to allow an annoying predictability in who you'll end up living near on random maps if you don't remember to turn off "culturally linked starting locations").

Of course, since I really don't much care about the culture groups myself, it goes without saying that I'm quite amenable to suggested changes regarding who should be in which group.

One other comment: The lux and science sliders reset to a total of 50% between each turn, even from below 50%. (I had science at 10% and Lux at 10% near the beginning and the sliders reset to 40 and 10 every turn. If I decreased the Lux to 0, the Science slider would return to 50.) Is there any reason that this happens?

Check the new Civilopedia "Rate Caps" entry for details. The short answer is, rate caps apply to all three uses of your money. If you set the science and happiness sliders such that the tax rate is above the rate cap, the game will automatically "fix" them for you at the end of the turn.

-- Darryl

 

[Lachlan]

The problem that is the AI who make a too lot of money, consequently AI develop early warfare

With 1.00 The game was more balanced

Like in real history, in my precedent 1.00, it was one city civ, four littles civs, and three giants civs

EDIT : i tried again but this is not fun again, in regent and in warlord level AI attacked me !!!

The mod is unbalanced, AI build lot of units (3 spearman in each town) when human can build only two spearman due to limit of treasury And IA can still build archers !!!

Definitively, i will wait the next version of your mod ...

Your first try (1.00) was very good

 

[DB_in_Omaha]

Originally posted by Lachlan
The problem that is the AI who make a too lot of money, consequently AI develop early warfare. With 1.00 The game was more balanced.... The mod is unbalanced, AI build lot of units (3 spearman in each town) when human can build only two spearman due to limit of treasury. And IA can still build archers !!!

I'm afraid I'm not quite following you. How does the treasury affect your ability to build units? And what change from 1.00 to 1.10 do you think allowed the AI to build more units? The change you mentioned earlier that you disliked was the fact that I put food consumption and production numbers back essentially as in the default game, but I don't really see any connection between that change and your current complaint....

-- Darryl

 

[Lachlan]

I will try to explain it

In 1.00 AI is minus implicated in settle race, she prefer build settler and buildings/wonders , as result : she is more peaceful and logic ...

In 1.10 AI is too war ! war ! war !

I prefer the mods with an optic of économic development, later, war, re-économic development, re-war, ...

I loved the idea to have have only on 25/30 cities : 5-10 level 20+,10-15 level 15+ and other 15-

Because in the real world all cities are not megalopolis ...

I recall the fact that the comsumption of 3 food didn'd impeached the ai to develop herselve very well


And when i try a mod i want new mechanisms of playing, i dislike standard civ ...

 

[Civslayer4sure]

I'm getting the error message too. since this is not self extracting, just where do I put what files in order top play?
It looks interesting.

 

[DB_in_Omaha]

Originally posted by Civslayer4sure
I'm getting the error message too. since this is not self extracting, just where do I put what files in order top play?
It looks interesting.

The RAR or zip files contain three items: a "Bigger, Better Worlds" directory, a "Bigger, Better Worlds" scenario file, and a "BBW, with Dinos" scenario file. All three should be put, just as is, into the "Scenarios" directory under your main "Conquests" directory. The "Bigger, Better Worlds" and "BBW, with Dinos" scenarios will then show up as available mods when you select "Civ Content" from the main "Conquests" menu.

-- Darryl

 

[Lachlan]

2 or 3 others than me appreciated food consumption = 3 per citizen ...

Your mod version 1.00 was balanced, equilibrated ...

In wainting this, i uninstalled your 1.10 mod ! Sorry !

I have an idea : i tested 1.10 onlevel chieftain --> too easy !
warlord --> too hard !

The ai should a malus of 50 %

The human with 100 shields builds an unit, AI should have to musts have 150 shields for the same unit

What do you think ?

Sorry for my bad english

 

[DB_in_Omaha]

Originally posted by Lachlan
In 1.00 AI is minus implicated in settle race, she prefer build settler and buildings/wonders , as result : she is more peaceful and logic ... In 1.10 AI is too war ! war ! war!

Personally, I haven't noticed that the AI is really any more or less warmongering in BBW (either version) than it is in standard C3C. In 1.00, the AI wasn't less likely to build military units; it just took AI civs (and player civs, of course) a bit longer to get started. And in 1.10, the AI civs' behavior seems pretty much in line with that in the standard game.

And when i try a mod i want new mechanisms of playing, i dislike standard civ ...

If I'm understanding you correctly, your real complaint is summed up right here: you dislike BBW 1.10 because the AI behaves too much like it does in standard C3C.

That's fine, but while it's my goal to make the game a bit more challenging and a bit more interesting, and perhaps make the tech trees a bit more realistic, it's not really my goal to make the AI civs more pacifistic.

I have an idea : i tested 1.10 onlevel chieftain --> too easy ! warlord --> too hard ! .... The human with 100 shields builds an unit, AI should have to musts have 150 shields for the same unit What do you think ?

How AI requirements compare with human player requirements is determined by your difficulty setting, not by the mod. If you consider the AI too aggressive -- and it sounds as if you regard that as a problem with the standard game that you want the mod to "fix" -- then I'd suggest setting the "agression level" lower when you start a game.

-- Darryl

 

[DB_in_Omaha]

Just after I posted the above comments, I visited another thread and came upon a post mentioning that changing the OCN (optimal city number) setting for a given world size will affect how heavily the AI pushes settlers. As I said, I haven't really noticed any change in AI behavior between BBW 1.00 and 1.10 myself, but I *did* lower the OCN settings to discourage large, sprawling empires. (I got that idea from the "Rhye's of Civilization" mod, by the way.) So I'll look into it. There may be more to your complaint than I'd realized, though if there is, the change is apparently unrelated to the issue of food consumption that we both thought we were discussing.

-- Darryl

 

[Lachlan]

My apologies DB_in_Omaha

My agressivity level AI was set one level up !

I play at the moment your mod in warlord + level 4/5 aggressivity level AI ...

But are you agree with the fact that Diplomacy is too simple in CIV 3 ... ?

 

[DB_in_Omaha]

BBW 1.11 is now available.

- Attached Road Building (worker ability) to Masonry.
- Disallowed irrigation of floodplains.
- Returned optimal city numbers to default values.

I promise I'll leave things alone, now, and give folk (including myself!) some time to actually playtest the mod a bit, before I make any more alterations!

-- Darryl

 

[Lachlan]

I will take this 1.11 when i will finished my current game

 

[DB_in_Omaha]

OK, BBW 1.12 undoes the change to road building; it's once again available to your workers (no matter what civ you play) at the start of the game. I decided sort of at the spur of the moment yesterday to attach it to a tech, but quickly realized it was a bad idea. I should know better than to pull something like that.

I promise I *will* leave things alone for a while, now, to allow some actual playtesting.

-- Darryl

 

[Lachlan]

What's the utility of units produced by Machiavelli ?

I can't attack cities !!!

 

[DB_in_Omaha]

Version 1.20 (3/21/04):

- Added Gaia Theory and Neural Interface techs to modern age.
- Added wonders: Area 51, Grand Unified Theory (GUT), Mayan Calendar, The Spirit of St. Louis.
- Removed wonder: Luther's 95 Theses.
- Renamed Libertarianism "Filler" Wonder as Egalitarian Society.
- Added improvements: Coffee Shop and Geothermal Plant.
- Added new military units: CyberPlane, CyberTank and Terrorist.
- Added new units to spy chain: Emissary and Covert Operative.
- Added two early air units: Balloon and Airship.
- Moved Bomber from Flight to Advanced Flight, and Helicopter from Advanced Flight to Rocketry.
- Removed Rubber requirements from modern age units and Mass Transit System.
- Added Saltpeter requirement to Rifleman.
- Made Engineering a requirement for clearing wetlands.
- Increased food production in jungles and wetlands (marshes), since they can no longer be modified in any way in the early game.
- Increased rate caps on the governments that have them.
- Replaced Jade, Olive Oil and Silver resources with Cocoa, Coffee and Hot Springs.
- Rotated Mayan, Persian and Hittite civ strengths so that Mayas are scientific and Persians are expansionistic.
- Extended game from 540 to 600 turns, and pushed start date back from 4000 to 6500 BC, to allow more time for ancient wonders to actually be built in ancient times.
- Enabled plagues.

-- Darryl C. Burgdorf

 

[DB_in_Omaha]

Originally posted by Lachlan
What's the utility of units produced by Machiavelli ? I can't attack cities !!!

Sorry for the delayed reply.

An unfortunate side-effect of the "hidden nationality" flag is that the unit so designated can't attack cities. (I've clarified that in the updated Civilopedia entry for Assassins.) The units are still useful for capturing workers and settlers and for attacking units in transit, without precipitating a war, though.

-- Darryl

 

[Guildenstern]

I registered on the forum today so I could say that this mod is quite neato. I'm quite impressed, though I installed Snoopy's graphics at the same time, which probably boosts my impression level slightly. Graphicwise, though, I really like your cultural borders, in that they indicate which side of the border is which. I have now adopted your border set into the standard game.

There seems to be a bug, which is either a Firaxis bug or a facet of the way things work which needs to be better taken into account: Some wonders bring the effects of a particular city improvement to every city. Some other wonders require X many of a particular city improvement to exist before they can be built. Using these in combination does not work, however. The wonders of the first category do not actually build the improvements, but only bring the effects of the improvements. So, they "don't count" towards the requirements of the wonders in the second category.

An example: I built Sun Tzu's Art of War before having built five barracks "the hard way". Now, I cannot build the Knights Templar because I do not have five barracks.

If this is intentional on Firaxis' part then it needs to be worked around. If a wonder of category A brings the effects of improvement X to every city, and a wonder of category B requires N improvements X to exist before being built, what I suggest is putting the same requirement on building the wonder of category A. So, in my example, this would mean requiring five barracks before building Sun Tzu's Art of War; this way, the requirement for the Knights Templar will have already been met, and frustration will be avoided.


Also, is there nothing that can be done about the AI's settler-building frenzy? I think the 3 population cost is cool, but as has been discussed at length in this thread, the AI can't deal with it. Increasing the shield cost helps a little, but I still have AI's falling far behind because they wasted so many shields on a finished settler that is waiting for population to increase.

Awesome mod, though, and keep it up.