New resource system, unit attrition and more

The BIGGEST problem you guys face with this type of system is not how to implement it, not how to do supply, etc, but quite simply how does a civ that doesn't have an oil resource get it? Can't fight for it, cuz your army will stink without oil.

I think a resouce supply/demand system is too complex a system for Civ. Go play Victoria if you want that.

All I want to see is cartels and > 2-party trade deals.

Dale
 
Which is why I support my scarcity system so strongly. i.e. greater resources=greater efficiency and vice versa. This way being short of a resource won't be the be-all and end-all, but having more will always be better than having less.

Aussie_Lurker.
 
Reminds me of my NoResorceScrewage xml based Mod, I doubled the cost of everything that requires a Bonus and changed the Bonus requirement to a 100% ProductionModifier when you have the Bonus. Net effect is you pay double when you dont have a resorce but you can always build any Unit.
 
OK heres my 2 cents,this is going to be vast so i'll break it down.
resorces-this should be a simlpe shield set up tiles would read 10 shields ,20 shields ,30 shields all variable but in incraments of ten to keep it simple, these are raw goods,oil ,grain,silk,etc.. and finshed goods ,food, armor,ammo,cloth etc..there are 3 basic types of these resorce/shields.
1-growth.should include high capacity grain ex-wheat.low copacity grain. ex-corn .high cappacity meat, ex-cows ,wild meats-game,low capacity fish-exe-crab,medium capacity fish exe-shellfish,domesticated fish exe-fish
2production-should be broken down into 3 catagorys-building material,ie clay,stone,hard wood,steel and aluminium.building capacity,this should be population shields and beast of burden shields.ie horses and cow.supply shields,food ,iron,oil,coal and uranium.
3luxurie this is the simplest of all.
how to collect these resorces is this,everything should be in shield form including population, say 10 shields for every population ,these shields along with beast of burden shields carry out the grunt work for the civ,building improvements, collecting resorces, building , supplieing millitary and so on .In collecting of resorces every resorce shield should require a population shield or beast of burden to collect it ,this could be an automatic thing in much the same way it is now,but the shields are neccesary( i'll explain down the road). To increase the amoant of a resorce that is being collected you should have improvements that you can continue to add to each improvemaent adding a 10% increase in collection.ex-A tile outside of city A has 10 shields of iron .you would have to allocate 10 population shields to harvest all 10 shileds ,now you add a mine .the amount of required population shields to collect the iron decrease to 9 .add another mine and it decreases again to 8 and so on.of course to make it ballanced your going to have to have a maintanance cost on every improvement,thats the job of cottages and towns.

to move the resorces the road network and trade needs to change.first i think that you should have more than just a road that connects to be able to collect that resorce,there should be stages of road ,each increasing the amount of resorce that can be moved.back to city A: your collecting 10 shields of iron from your iron tile and the city is connected by a levl 1 road (each level should be able to move 10 shields per turn)city A also has 2 other iron tiles ,each with 10 shields .they are also connected to the city with a level one road. now you have 30 iron shields in city A.to move these shields in total to your capitol would require a level 3 ( for 30 shields) road.obviosly to be able to trade with other nations, is going to require building up of a road network or trade network..to handle trade on coastal cities, ports should handle this and should be treated as the same as roads .each port you build in a city increases your export/import capacity by 10,there is a point i want to make about supply on this but later.
how to use the resorces-first of all tiles that dont have resorces should have 3 basic shields :clay for grassland and plains, hard woods for forest/jungle and stone for hills .All improvements should require a raw good and a prodution amount (raw goods would be building matreial shields and production would be population shields)ex. a foundry should require 5 stone shields or 5 hard wood shields and 15 production shields. outside of building basic millitary,science,and gold, all improvemnts should be for increasing the capacity of shields.ex.city A has 30 iron in the city ,build a foundry and now you icrease your capacity by 50% ,now CityA is producing 45 shields of iron.
back to building the foundry,you have 3 population in your city(30 shields)cityB is collecting 20 stone and is connected to the capitol by level 2 road. that means you have accass to 20 stone in city A(every resorce should use the road indapently ,all resorces go into a general slush fund and roads are the limits on how much a city can import/ export)each iron tile has 3 mines on it (keep in mind that every improvement decreases your population needs by 10%) which would only require 7 of the 10 population shields to collect the resorce ,meaning there are 3 population shields left over on each tile .those shields go back to the city and become your production shields or hammers as we know them in civ 4,meaning that the 9 production shields(3 from each mine) will take 2 turns to build the foundry that requires 15 shields ,with 3 shields left over for the next turn.
for units this should require x amount of population shields and x amount of building material shields. Most units should have a supply shiled attached to them and used every turn ex. legions should have a food shield that they need to be supplied with that is automaticly taken out of the slush at the begining of the turn,rather than stopping the unit if supply is cut it should have collateral damage applied to it every turn. some units having higher % of collateral than others.units that run on fuel should have the highest% ,while foot units the lowest.the amount that that can be supplied depends on the road the unit it is traveling on ,a level 1 road can supply up to 10 shields,because units that require fuel along with food will require more supply shields ,you wont be able to move large amounts of armor in enemy terratory unless thier trade network is built up .as for navy ,your ports should determine when your navy is out of supply ,this should aslo work for trade,each port level should grant one tile of supply . in other words a level 3 port would mean that your gally can move 3 tiles out from the city before it begins to recieve collateral damage .as for trade it should be 3 tiles for every level of the port.this is the base level and as techs increase the amaont of tiles for port level would increase.


I have much more than this but ill put this out for now.
 
ok i missed a couple of things mostly growth shields.
in general, grasslands ,plains and hills should have 1 food shield respectavly,farms and techs would increase this of course but for the most part they are low yeild. flood plains would have 2 shields,untill cultivation .This tech would allow the first civ and only the first to see the wheat resorce, once you begin to farm wheat you can use a wheat shield to grow new fields ex. civA researches cultivation and has a wheat icon pop up in one of thiere tiles ,with a shield of ten,they place ten pop shields to harvest. ten shields of wheat go to the city,they take one shield of wheat and place it on a empty flood plain tile and another wheat icon pops up in that tile ,this should be ten shields no matter what .that civ can also trades the wheat shield to other civs and the wheat shield should also act like religion in that it would naturally grow to their civs along trade routes,now to grow beasts of burden would require grain shields,if you discover domestication and you can grow wheat ,you should be able to take a horse shield and a wheat shield to create new horse resorces in an empty tile
live stock shields should also break down like this ;horse shields should be used for millitary,and production.cows should break down to food and production. you should be able to "grow"cows and horses in any terrain.pigs are only for food,sheep are for luxery and food. pigs can grow only in plains and grassland ,sheep in hill tiles.
corn,rice and wheat would have also have limmits on where they can be grown.
 
as i said all improvements outside of science and gold are for improving your collection amount or turning raw goods into finished product.
In building of units,simple defensives units should be able to build inside your city but offensive units should require something eles,military bases either army,navy or airforse. these should function similer to cities but you can only build units in them.resorces neccesary for the building of units should be allocated here,in your cities you should be building the capacity for millitary might but not the millitary. this would not include ancient times but i think once you get to the bronze age it should come into play.to make a legion would require a weapons factory improvement. in city A this factory takes x amount of iron shields and turns that into x amount of weapons ,these shields go into a slush fund that incompases your intire empire, and when you go to your army base it gives you options to build units depending on what shields you have available in the fund .these shields can be traded to other civs.ie the iran contra affair.
 
Hehe. Reminds me of the idea I had to always make oil appear in the 'minor civilizations', so the major civilizations have to figure out how to feed their dependency. Diplomacy? War? It would definitely add some excitement to the modern era. :)
 
dh_epic said:
Hehe. Reminds me of the idea I had to always make oil appear in the 'minor civilizations', so the major civilizations have to figure out how to feed their dependency. Diplomacy? War? It would definitely add some excitement to the modern era. :)

By minor civilizations do you mean that in game terms? Because if so, there's no way to negotiate with the minor civs since they're just barbarian cities.

On the other hand, if you mean: could there be a way to ensure that smaller, weaker civs get the majority of the oil... it could theoretically be possible to mod that.
 
Yeah, this was more of a pie in the sky idea, assuming that there would be more minor factions to provide diplomatic flavor to the game.
 
I posted on a nother string about minor nations,make certain resorces neccesary for techs A good example would be needing wheet for agriculture tech in this way withuot certain techs the growth of empires would be stemed and relate this to whats up top and allocate oil into desert and tundra both lacking in food and you can see how minor civs could possbly controle stratigic resorces.
 
Is this mod component ready?
 
Excuse me, back on page two of this thread did somebody say you could use the SDK to add a fourth yield? It would be a really nice mod component if somebody could make something that could do just that, and leave it so we can make up all about this yield in XML. So you can use fourth yield functionality without knowing SDK. I need this for my sci fi mod.
 
It can be done, but what would you do with this fourth yield outside of the SDK? Plus I'm also concerned about the extra memory it consumes - arrays of length NUM_YIELD_TYPES are all over the SDK. Nevertheless if you want this the code is in CvEnums.h and CyEnumsInterface.cpp. I've tried doing this but it screwed up all of the icons in the game - the symbol for science became aluminium, etc. so you'd have to work that one out for yourself.
 
Thanks anyway. What I needed it for was to represent an alternate kind of food, as for aliens or robots that don't eat the same kind of food that people do. I guess that will just have to wait for a 3.0 version of my mod. (1.0 will be XML based, 2.0 will be python based, etc...as a I learn). In the meantime food will just represent power (which is much more local to a city than food is in a post modern world anyway) and anything involving humans will simply require a food "bonus."
 
Why not have hidden techs or buildings that increase/decrease food yield from certain tiles?
 
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