New Resources

[ferenginar]

The game is already forcing warmongering, particularly in the modern age; it could be they felt it needed a bigger push in the exploration age.

I think that the military points system could do with a few adjustments, perhaps adding in points for a robust defence, rather than taking opponents cities. There could be some mileage in units killed, against units lost, a commander and range units in walled quarters could gain a few points for holding off attacks.

 

[MutilationWave]

The game is already forcing warmongering, particularly in the modern age; it could be they felt it needed a bigger push in the exploration age.

I think that the military points system could do with a few adjustments, perhaps adding in points for a robust defence, rather than taking opponents cities. There could be some mileage in units killed, against units lost, a commander and range units in walled quarters could gain a few points for holding off attacks.

I like this. I think all the legacy paths need at least a second method of gaining points. I have only once got a point in culture in antiquity, usually I only build gate of all nations because the deity AI is so insanely far ahead they are building wonders that I would need two more civics to even unlock. For whatever reason they don't prioritize the gate, which I'm very grateful for.

 

[MutilationWave]

In my current exploration game, I only have one. I can see a few more but the distant land civs already have claimed these, and I’m trying to play peacefully.

It may be a combination of the new resources and the new map development.

@queenpea @ferenginar

What map type are you guys playing? I'm going to start exploration age today on my first 1.2 game. I'm playing fractal. I'll try to remember to post here what my situation is regarding treasure resources.

 

[Yzman]

Where have the treasure resources gone, I used to get to between 7 and 10, maybe 12, but with 1.2 I have 2. There are a couple of others, either covered by AI cities, or inland and inaccessible for fleets. I seriously hope this was just an unfortunate coincidence and not an outcome of the recent changes to the resource system.

I hardly ever got lucky with that many

 

[99-percent-sure]

Where have the treasure resources gone, I used to get to between 7 and 10, maybe 12, but with 1.2 I have 2. There are a couple of others, either covered by AI cities, or inland and inaccessible for fleets. I seriously hope this was just an unfortunate coincidence and not an outcome of the recent changes to the resource system.

So far, I haven't found anywhere to settle in exploration where I'd have access to more than one treasure fleet resource per settlement. I'll be lucky to hit the second economic legacy marker at this rate.

 

[cbum]

I remember some comment about making the treasure fleet win harder to get - less T-resources would be one way to do that.

I have noticed, however, that I keep getting alerts about distant land settlements that have "potential" T-resources and need a place to build a ship - but in landlocked locations!

 

[Krikkit1]

I remember some comment about making the treasure fleet win harder to get - less T-resources would be one way to do that.

I have noticed, however, that I keep getting alerts about distant land settlements that have "potential" T-resources and need a place to build a ship - but in landlocked locations!

Perhaps they could allow a Merchant to connect a Landlocked Treasure Settlement to a Water Access settlement

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

To chime in here, just finished 35 turns into Exploration on a Fractal map, and having explored about a dozen islands and part of the Distant Lands continent, have found exactly one ( Count 'em, ONE) Treasure resource. And except in the Arctic - far north of the continent - there is no coastal area of the Distant Lands continent to settle on not already occupied by an AI Civ.

Luckily, I'm playing a militant game, so frankly I will do what I've had to do many times in the past: ignore the Treasure Fleet/Economic Legacy Path in favor of simply wiping the map with Distant Lands cities and going for Military, Cultural and Scientific Legacies - the latter two are ridiculously easy and military won't be that hard in this game: I'm playing Mahapajit with Trung Trac as Leader and started Exploration ge with a 25% lead in Science!

 

[queenpea]

I think something is definitely off with the map generation and treasure resources since 1.2–I think it’s a combination of:

1) AI opponents growing more due to food changes and settling more territory

2) Map generation/coastal erosion creating more interesting but less blocky continents thus smaller landmasses with less room to settle.

3) New resource categories with new polar (north/south) associations for treasure resources, possibly making the resources themselves rarer.

I just finished an Exploration Age where I led the Economic Victory, but at the end of the Age I had accumulated only about ten points. All of my opponents had fewer than 6 points. I managed to settle a small island with one treasure resource early in the age, hence my advantage.

 

[Serenya]

I play at sov level so much easier and I really noticed the change to resources! In prior games I’d park my fleets at the homelands to give me time to do other paths and then end with 90 pts. This time I only had about 20 pts when the age ended, having exceeded the requirements for the other paths.

 

[Daigotsu Max]

Coincidentally my first game with the new patch was with Songhai which made things wayyy easier. But yes only had a couple of spots on an island, and had to launch a massive naval invasion for just one more resource. Not sure if it's meant to be that hard.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I think something is definitely off with the map generation and treasure resources since 1.2–I think it’s a combination of:

1) AI opponents growing more due to food changes and settling more territory

2) Map generation/coastal erosion creating more interesting but less blocky continents thus smaller landmasses with less room to settle.

3) New resource categories with new polar (north/south) associations for treasure resources, possibly making the resources themselves rarer.

I just finished an Exploration Age where I led the Economic Victory, but at the end of the Age I had accumulated only about ten points. All of my opponents had fewer than 6 points. I managed to settle a small island with one treasure resource early in the age, hence my advantage.

Based, admittedly, on only two plays through Exploration since the patch, I think another factor is that the AI still does not prioritize settling on/near Treasure Resources. In my first post-patch game, two AIs got settlements down on the islands, and neither of them was anywhere near a Treasure resource, despite the fact that there was one on the island just to the south of them. At the end of that Age, not one AI Civ from the Homeland had settled to get any Distant Lands treasure resources except me, and I had only found one resource. The enire Economic Legacy Path for that game was completely aborted by the map/resource placement.

This lack of interest by the AI was also present before: in several games at the end of Exploration Age I found that the best AI Civ had less than 10 treasure points even though they were competing successfully for military or cultural legacies and I had completed over 30 treasure points. There simply wasn't, and still isn't, any real competition.

 

[queenpea]

Based, admittedly, on only two plays through Exploration since the patch, I think another factor is that the AI still does not prioritize settling on/near Treasure Resources. In my first post-patch game, two AIs got settlements down on the islands, and neither of them was anywhere near a Treasure resource, despite the fact that there was one on the island just to the south of them. At the end of that Age, not one AI Civ from the Homeland had settled to get any Distant Lands treasure resources except me, and I had only found one resource. The enire Economic Legacy Path for that game was completely aborted by the map/resource placement.

This lack of interest by the AI was also present before: in several games at the end of Exploration Age I found that the best AI Civ had less than 10 treasure points even though they were competing successfully for military or cultural legacies and I had completed over 30 treasure points. There simply wasn't, and still isn't, any real competition.

I have definitely played games where the AI finished the Legacy Path in exploration, but they’ve definitely never been as skilled as a human player.

 

[MutilationWave]

I have definitely played games where the AI finished the Legacy Path in exploration, but they’ve definitely never been as skilled as a human player.

I don't think I've seen an AI even hit the second point. It's crazy how different everyone's experiences with the AI have been.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

I have definitely played games where the AI finished the Legacy Path in exploration, but they’ve definitely never been as skilled as a human player.

On a 'benign' map, which I've seen about 10% of the time Pre-Patch, where Treasure Resources litter the islands like beach sand, I have seen the AI get up to 8 - 9 Treasure Points by the end of Exploration Age. On that same map, though, I finished 30 points and got an extra 10 - 15 by the end of the Age, so comparatively, the AI is not competitive. Again, just my experience, but based on 15 - 20 Exploration Age plays since release.

On the other hand, my experience is that the AI is much more competent at competing for Relics in the Modern Age, frequently being only 2 - 3 behind me at getting the required number. How they can be programmed to do that almost as well as the human player and fail so miserably at Exploration's Treasure Fleet system is a bit of a mystery to me, because they are both basically Find X, Fill The Pail in concept.

 

[Kenshiro70]

From what I've seen in my two playthroughs so far, the treasure resources are there, but much less "clumped" than in than in the prior version. So even if I settle right in the middle of a patch of them, it takes precious extra turns to build out to them. And since the city upgrade now starts at 2000 gold, there's a limit to how much I can buy my way to reach them. Consequently I have not finished the track either time.

One thing I did do that makes my games more palatable is drop the number of AI players That forces most of them onto the homeland and results in more of a land rush in Exploration, which feels a lot more historically accurate. Also, I start the age by buying 2-3 scouts for each coast and sending them off into the wide blue ocean. That way I can target my where settlers land.

Edit: me fail English? That's unpossible!

 

[Pfeffersack]

(...)

One thing I did do that makes my games more palatable is drop the number of AI players That forces most of them onto the homeland and results in more of a land rush in Exploration, which feels a lot more historically accurate. Also, I start the age by buying 2-3 scouts for each coast and sending them off into the wide blue ocean. That way I can target my where settlers land.

Not disagreeing on more space being a good thing, but I prefered using a bigger map to keep the number of players (which is even maxed out only the bare minimum for my taste) . A good chunk of my civ experience is playing on vast maps vs. many opponents. The reason is that beside the feeling of "playing in a world" is that only with a certain number of civs a certain dynamic in diplomacy is possible.

 

[Nikolai II]

Was not the wild game I was expecting.
View attachment 729818

Hahaha that is really cool.

 

[Pfeffersack]

I have yet to get into the exploration age after the patch, but regarding the perceived observation that there are less treasure ressources: Is it possible that this related to the change that "new world" civs now having treasury ressources in the old world? This could mean that what was before concentrated in the new world now gets spread over the entire map...and everything landing on your hemisphere is no longer considered to be a treasury resource. Even if the total number of such tiles might have been increased, this could explain why the human player in SP (and the old world AIs) now gets less...because the new world AIs get their share fromt the toal as well.

 

[Kenshiro70]

I have yet to get into the exploration age after the patch, but regarding the perceived observation that there are less treasure ressources: Is it possible that this related to the change that "new world" civs now having treasury ressources in the old world? This could mean that what was before concentrated in the new world now gets spread over the entire map...and everything landing on your hemisphere is no longer considered to be a treasury resource. Even if the total number of such tiles might have been increased, this could explain why the human player in SP (and the old world AIs) now gets less...because the new world AIs get their share fromt the toal as well.

I mentioned this in the 1.2.0 thread, but I have a hypothesis on what's happening. Remember when they said that the new resources came with their own narrative events? Yup, some of the Treasure Resources are gated by goodie huts, each with a choice to reveal the resource or receive an immediate reward.

Now if you're a Distant Lands civ, which will your scout pick? You guessed it - the resources aren't special to them, so they'll probably take the quick payoff. Unfortunately that removes the resource from the board; nothing to find, fight over, or capture. Like it never existed in the first place.

It's just a hypothesis, but it does explain how the Treasure Resources would pass superficial testing - they would count as being correctly seeded but become unavailable through the course of the game. And I suspect no one checked the number of resources at the end of the era to see how well they matched with the seeded number.