New terrain features

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Here are some Dune War resource graphics that I would like you to rename and add into C2C.

Coconuts
Bonus: +1 Food
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Gathering
Improvement: Gathering Camp -> Picking Camp -> Plantation
Terrain: Jungle

Prickly Pear
Bonus: +1 Food
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Gathering
Improvement: Gathering Camp -> Picking Camp -> Plantation
Terrain: Desert

Peyote
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: Mysticism
Enabled: Drug Trade
Improvement: Plantation
Terrain: Desert

Agave
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Fermentation
Improvement: Plantation
Terrain: Desert

Poppies
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Drug Trade
Improvement: Plantation
Terrain: Desert

Hydrangea
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Florestry
Improvement: Plantation?
Terrain: Jungle

Flax
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Weaving
Improvement: Gathering Camp -> Picking Camp -> Plantation
Terrain: Grassland

Papyrus
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Weaving
Improvement: Gathering Camp -> Picking Camp -> Plantation
Terrain: Flood Plains or Marsh

Amber
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: Barter
Enabled: Mining
Improvement: Mine
Terrain: ?

Platinum
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: Barter
Enabled: Mining
Improvement: Mine
Terrain: ?

Date Palm
Bonus: +1 Food
Revealed: Gathering
Enabled: Calendar
Improvement: Plantation
Terrain: Desert

Resin
Bonus: +1 Commerce
Revealed: ?
Enabled: ?
Improvement: Plantation
Terrain: Desert

Also i would like the Rabbit resource put in. I have a plan on how to rework my trap related buildings. Many thanks in advance!

 

[Hydromancerx]

6. Seals/walruses are placed after the map is generated. Also if you like I can change the python so that the Seal Hunter's camp also provides fur and the Walrus Hunter's camp provides ivory. If you do it in the XML for the building it can "crash" corporations.

Could you make a new non-map resource called "Ivory"? In turn renamed Ivory map resource "Elephants". Then Elephants, Mammoths and Walruses could produce "Ivory".

Likewise change Furs to "Beaver" and make a new non-map resource called "Furs". In turn Seals, Beavers and Rabbits can produce "Furs".

Can that be done?

Ah but if we also use the Terrain Mod we also have tagia where mammoths live and the Australian biomes which you are ignoring completely.

However adding any new terrain, as opposed to terrain feature, will require modding all the map scripts.

As you can see in the attached image I have shrunk the bones/fossil terrain feature. Currently you can't build anything on this feature. Also resources can appear where terrain features are giving a conflict since putting some improvements on a plot will remove the terrain feature.

I have not yet added this to the file in the first post.

1. Do you have screenshots of what the terrain looks like? I would like to use them if I know what they look like.

2. And as for Australian stuff have you seen a Kangaroo resource? That would be awesome if there was one.

3. Yes i realizes all the map scrips will have to be changed. Do you know how to is the question. If so then I can provide you with any questions you have on how they should be. Note if its too hard to change all the map scripts then perhaps just use Perfect World as a base and make our own unique C2C map script. That way the other maps will be left as they are and all the new terrain can be in a special new map script.

4. That looks much better. Maybe even too small. LOL

 

[Hydromancerx]

Edit Have you seen the Terain mod? Luckily I downloaded it a long time ago as it i no longer available.

Can you upload it so I can take a loot at them?

 

[strategyonly]

Here are some resources i kept from along time ago, already made into modules, but WILL need to be updated of course.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20660417/Resources.7z

 

[Hydromancerx]

@strategyonly & Dancing Hoskuld

Looking though these file I think we could salvage the following ...

1. The Amber graphic looks better than the Dune Wars one.

2. Barley looks fine.

3. Clay looks good if we want to make it a map resource.

4. Diamonds looks good.

5. Oh I like their Flax better. We can always use the yellow flowers for another flower type like Sunflowers.

6. Jade looks really good.

7. Not sure about he Natural Gas, but it would be nice to have that as a resource.

8. Oats look fine as well.

9. Ah Opium looks fine. We can always use the red flowers for another flower type like Roses.

10. Wow the Papyrus is way better than the other one. I will have to figure out another use for the Dune Wars Papyrus graphic.

11. Rubies look great too!

12. Sapphires look great as well!

13. Oh i like the Tin as well!

So adding them all up for new resources would be ...

- Fossils
- Mammoth
- Rabbit
- Coconuts
- Prickly Pear
- Peyote
- Agave
- Roses
- Hydrangeas
- Sunflowers
- Unknown (Bamboo Maybe?)
- Unknown (Topaz Maybe?)
- Platinum
- Dates
- Resin
- Amber
- Barley
- Clay
- Diamonds
- Flax
- Jade
- Natural Gas
- Oats
- Opium
- Papyrus
- Rubies
- Sapphires
- Tin

Also if we have separate gems should gems still be in the game then?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Almost all of those are in my unreleased extra extras that I have been playing with for quite some time.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Almost all of those are in my unreleased extra extras that I have been playing with for quite some time.

Well release them! Add add them to the SVN!

I can easily tweak my bonus resource buildings to require these new map resources. And if we were going to add more resources due to there being no limit anymore, I would rather we start with actual map resources. As opposed to building produced ones.

I assume the ones you have do not have repeats like the file strategyonly provided.

 

[climat]

Well. Please consider this before you add more map resources.
More resources = Less room per each resources.

Do we really need more grains like barley or oats?
Is it necessary to make flowers a resource?
Should gems be divided into respective ones?
It's just my opinion, but I don't think so.

Gathering various resources is very fun, and I like it.
I'm just worried about probable "absence" of some already-rare resources in the map.
It is essential revising distribution of existing resources before adding more.

 

[strategyonly]

Well. Please consider this before you add more map resources.
More resources = Less room per each resources.

Do we really need more grains like barley or oats?
Is it necessary to make flowers a resource?
Should gems be divided into respective ones?
It's just my opinion, but I don't think so.

Gathering various resources is very fun, and I like it.
I'm just worried about probable "absence" of some already-rare resources in the map.
It is essential revising distribution of existing resources before adding more.

I would have to agree, i like the goods stuff better than adding resources.

 

[Schwarzbart]

More resources also mean you probably have to rewrite the map scripts so they will add them also.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well. Please consider this before you add more map resources.
More resources = Less room per each resources.

Do we really need more grains like barley or oats?
Is it necessary to make flowers a resource?
Should gems be divided into respective ones?
It's just my opinion, but I don't think so.

Gathering various resources is very fun, and I like it.
I'm just worried about probable "absence" of some already-rare resources in the map.
It is essential revising distribution of existing resources before adding more.

Well there are some resources we should add due to them not being represented at all such as a cactus (very few desert resources) and at least one flower resource. It would lso be nice to have things like papyrus or flax. In short my top 5 would be ...

1. Prickly Pear
2. Papyrus
3. Roses (Or one of the other flowers)
4. Bamboo
5. Flax

Those 5 I would really like to get included.

Like you said the the first ones I would give up would be ...

1. Grains (Oats, Barley)
2. Gems (Diamonds, Rubies, Sapphires, Jade, Topaz, Amber)
3. Rabbits (We already have Beavers)
4. Metals (Platinum, Tin)
5. Flowers (The other 2 flowers)
6. Resin (Incenses could already represent this)

That leaves us with ...

- Fossils (already added)
- Mammoth (already added)
- Coconuts (would like to have)
- Peyote (would like to have)
- Agave (would like to have)
- Dates (would like to have)
- Clay (maybe)
- Natural Gas (maybe)
- Opium (would like to have)

In short it comes down to 2 already in, 5 i for sure want 7 I would like to have, 2 maybe and 14 I could live without.

I hope that helps show you my priority when it comes to this. While it would be nice to have them all I understand if i need to cut down my list.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well release them! Add add them to the SVN!

I can easily tweak my bonus resource buildings to require these new map resources. And if we were going to add more resources due to there being no limit anymore, I would rather we start with actual map resources. As opposed to building produced ones.

I assume the ones you have do not have repeats like the file strategyonly provided.

The last time I mentioned all these resources the consensus was that having so many would just not work well.

Well there are some resources we should add due to them not being represented at all such as a cactus (very few desert resources) and at least one flower resource. It would lso be nice to have things like papyrus or flax. In short my top 5 would be ...

1. Prickly Pear
2. Papyrus
3. Roses (Or one of the other flowers)
4. Bamboo
5. Flax

Those 5 I would really like to get included.

Like you said the the first ones I would give up would be ...

1. Grains (Oats, Barley)
2. Gems (Diamonds, Rubies, Sapphires, Jade, Topaz, Amber)
3. Rabbits (We already have Beavers)
4. Metals (Platinum, Tin)
5. Flowers (The other 2 flowers)
6. Resin (Incenses could already represent this)

That leaves us with ...

- Fossils (already added)
- Mammoth (already added)
- Coconuts (would like to have)
- Peyote (would like to have)
- Agave (would like to have)
- Dates (would like to have)
- Clay (maybe)
- Natural Gas (maybe)
- Opium (would like to have)

In short it comes down to 2 already in, 5 i for sure want 7 I would like to have, 2 maybe and 14 I could live without.

I hope that helps show you my priority when it comes to this. While it would be nice to have them all I understand if i need to cut down my list.

Rabbits are already in my released extras pack.

I have been thinking that we should use of some of these resources differently. For example it is often the case that lead and silver are found together. So why not remove lead from the map and have it produced as a by product of silver smelting IE have the silver smelter produce lead and maybe zinc?

 

[CiverDan]

Regarding salt. Always bugs me when on a huge map I can only find one source of salt and its in the arctic somewhere. As far as salt flats themselves, they aren't generally where salt is mined as the salt there is just at the surface (the Bonneville Flats are a good example).

Getting back to the terrain features, I like the idea of more varied terrain, but unsure if we need Muddy as a distinct terrain type as it is temporary conditon (i.e. due to snow melt) as opposed to Marsh.

 

[climat]

My words sounded more negative than I had intended.. Sorry.

Not that I disagree with adding all.
My point was that we may as well revise placement of existing resources first before adding them.
Grain and animal resources (especially cow) were really common as I was looking into it.
We can create room for other resources if we reduce probability of their placement.

Actually, I like to have all. The more, the merrier.
I won't have any complain as long as all resources are placed in maps.

+ Maybe it's just a problem of some mapscripts I use, but I think there should be more desert tiles.

Regarding salt. Always bugs me when on a huge map I can only find one source of salt and its in the arctic somewhere.

Well. Not that harsh in my games, but salt is really rare. 2~3 in a huge map usually.

 

[strategyonly]

My words sounded more negative than I had intended.. Sorry.

Not that I disagree with adding all.
My point was that we may as well revise placement of existing resources first before adding them.
Grain and animal resources (especially cow) were really common as I was looking into it.
We can create room for other resources if we reduce probability of their placement.

Actually, I like to have all. The more, the merrier.
I won't have any complain as long as all resources are placed in maps.

+ Maybe it's just a problem of some mapscripts I use, but I think there should be more desert tiles.



I felt like this also.

Have you tried the C2C_PerfectWorld2f, if you like more desert, than this is for you, plus all the other features and terrain.

 

[Hydromancerx]

The last time I mentioned all these resources the consensus was that having so many would just not work well.

Do you think having more terrain types and limiting resources to specific terrain types would ensure that resources get on the map?

Rabbits are already in my released extras pack.

I already mentioned that in post 21.

I have been thinking that we should use of some of these resources differently. For example it is often the case that lead and silver are found together. So why not remove lead from the map and have it produced as a by product of silver smelting IE have the silver smelter produce lead and maybe zinc?

Well awhile back when I was first on the forums I posted an idea of having resources be more generic such as having just "grains" or "rare metals" or "common metals" rather than specific resources.

Since that time I have done a similar things with the bonus buildings. Here is a chart of all the bonus resource buildings i made just by having city vicinity stuff. (See Attachments)

I think we should leave lead and I think I already have Zinc as a bonus building. In short I understand if we are reaching our map resource limit. I could easily make the bonus resource buildings produce real manufactured resources instead of goods if we need to go that direction.

And in fact every resources listed is already represented by a bonus building. So we don't need any of them if its going to break things.

EDIT: Yep its there, Bonus Resource Zinc is Copper + Silver in the city vicinity.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Getting back to the terrain features, I like the idea of more varied terrain, but unsure if we need Muddy as a distinct terrain type as it is temporary condition (i.e. due to snow melt) as opposed to Marsh.

Muddy i was thinking of more of a tropical rainforest or redwood forest terrain where its not quite a marsh but not try either.

 

[Epona222]

This all looks great -

note on the tar pits, they should provide the resource (or good, or whatever it should be!) bitumen - not sure how it should be used in game, but it was used as far back as prehistoric times in areas where it was readily available to seal cooking baskets and water containers, and to provide waterproofing for reed boats and the like. Some cultures also used to chew it like gum. It is an unhealthy substance though and recent studies have shown that over a period of time it caused reduced height and bone density in the populations to whom it was available, so should definitely provide unhealthiness as well as whatever benefits you choose it to provide.

 

[EldrinFal]

Although the idea of new resources sounds cool-- and would LOOK cool-- I think what others have said is true. The more choices there are, the greater the chance other resources won't appear, or will be very very thin. And now that affects the new Culture possibilities as well. If Apples appear only one on the entire map, for example, then that would be the only place in the world to create English culture, and that's assuming it is in the vicinity of the other requirements as well (forest and coast I think?).

Resources/Goods seems to be the path of least resistance here. Some of those suggested items can be byproducts of other resources in the area (as mentioned) or even byproducts of improvements or specific terrain.

I suppose if you could somehow specialize Farms, Cottages, and Mines that weren't already on a resource, that could be a possibility. i.e instead of building a "Farm" you build a "Barley Farm" or "Vegetable Farm" etc. But probably just easier as buildings.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have just updated the first post with a new version of terrain features and resources. I think resources Mammoth, Clay and Lobster; and terrain features Bones and tar Pit are working fine, so if there are no objections in the ext few days I will look to moving them into the SVN. I will need to do something about C2C Perfect World map script to get the features on the map.

I have an idea where the resource display problem may be occurring but i want to get a number of things off my plate before looking into it.