New terrain features

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The problem here is that there are no bonuses they could provide, and we can't add bonuses freely still I am told. Having these improvements in a context where they do NOT provide any bonus (just increase tile productivity) would be a bit confusing I think.

There are improvements that go on a feature and don't provide bonuses. The forest reserve in standard BtS and my beacon and lighthouse improvements for reefs (which aren't working right) are examples. The lumber mill and watermill don't in std BtS but the lumber mill does in C2C.

 

[EldrinFal]

Well Bamboo, Coconuts, and Date Palms could have Wood Gatherer, Lumberjack, Lumbermill I would think. As well as normally getting chopped.

Barrel Cactus, Pickly Pear Cactus and Sword Grass I do not think should have Lumbermills and I am unsure if chopping should give any benefit. Maybe just clearing the land.

Wouldn't Coconuts work more like how Bananas do? Plantation I think?

Bamboo is incredibly versatile. I think the Lumber line or even the plantation line could be applicable imho (harvest for building purposes, harvest for consumption). For any who don't know, Bamboo is a grass

 

[Nevets_]

Wouldn't Coconuts work more like how Bananas do? Plantation I think?

Bamboo is incredibly versatile. I think the Lumber line or even the plantation line could be applicable imho (harvest for building purposes, harvest for consumption). For any who don't know, Bamboo is a grass

Some suggestions:

Bamboo Grove +1
Requires: Carpentry, Bamboo in city vicinity
Gives: Good (Bamboo) to each city in trade network

Bamboo Armorer now requires Good (Bamboo) instead of previous requirements.

Bamboo Scaffolding +1
Requires: Construction, Good (Bamboo)
Gives: +10% building construction

Bamboo Pipes +1 +1
Requires: Masonry, Agriculture, Good (Bamboo), Town Well
Gives: +25% to build Water Pipes
Replaced by Water Pipes.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Some suggestions:

Bamboo Grove +1
Requires: Carpentry, Bamboo in city vicinity
Gives: Good (Bamboo) to each city in trade network

Bamboo Armorer now requires Good (Bamboo) instead of previous requirements.

Bamboo Scaffolding +1
Requires: Construction, Good (Bamboo)
Gives: +10% building construction

Bamboo Pipes +1 +1
Requires: Masonry, Agriculture, Good (Bamboo), Town Well
Gives: +25% to build Water Pipes
Replaced by Water Pipes.

Well right now the Bamboo Grove requires exactly that. And the Bamboo Armorer requires the Tannery + Good (Bamboo).

As for Bamboo Scaffolding and Bamboo Pipes they may need some tweaking but I like the ideas.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Climat and/or AIAndy (and/or Dancing Hoskuld when you get better)

Can either of you do the following so we can get these done and thus release the next update?

1. Changing Barren terrain to use the default Civ4 vanilla tundra terrain.

2. Changing Grassland terrain to use the default Civ4 vanilla Grassland terrain so it can be distinguished from lush terrain (which you could probably do since you have changed it before).

3. Activate the new terrain features on all maps.

4. Make RoM Perfect World more like the one AIAndy posted but with all the new terrain features too?

5. Making Bamboo and Sword Grass spread faster than forests.

6. Enabling the other C2C maps to use the new terrain (if possible).

Many thanks in advance.

Because at the moment we have some maps like Fractal which have all the terrain features but not the new terrain types. Then we have C2C_PerfectWorld2f which has all the new terrain types not not the new terrain features. And then most of the rest have neither.

 

[climat]

1. Changing Barren terrain to use the default Civ4 vanilla tundra terrain.

2. Changing Grassland terrain to use the default Civ4 vanilla Grassland terrain so it can be distinguished from lush terrain (which you could probably do since you have changed it before).

Can't graphical things be done with xml?

3. Activate the new terrain features on all maps.

4. Make RoM Perfect World more like the one AIAndy posted but with all the new terrain features too?

6. Enabling the other C2C maps to use the new terrain (if possible).

Because at the moment we have some maps like Fractal which have all the terrain features but not the new terrain types. Then we have C2C_PerfectWorld2f which has all the new terrain types not not the new terrain features. And then most of the rest have neither.

Placement of terrain and features seems a matter of map scripts. Unfortunately, I'm not familiar with them.. I'm trying to learn it, though.
CvMapGeneratorUtil.py AIAndy updated should place new terrains. It have codes about them.
I'm confused now.. What do xmls do about placement?

@AIAndy

Flood plains can be placed on Plains also. You missed that out.

Can you add an option to enable players to choose sea level or percentage of ocean to PerfectWorld map script? It was my only complain about that map script.

5. Making Bamboo and Sword Grass spread faster than forests.

I'm not sure, but it may be able to be done with iGrowth tag in feature xml files. Forest and Jungle are set to <iGrowth>16</iGrowth> and <iGrowth>20</iGrowth> respectively. Setting higher number may make them spread faster.

 

[Hydromancerx]

1. I guess. I don't know enough about map and terrains to do anything besides changing the xml values. Note that the barren button I put in still shows up as the plains instead even though I told it to use the new barren button. Thus I am overly confused.

2a. Good luck. Any insight to how they work should help the project overall.

2b. Well it worked on some of the maps but not all.

2c. I have no idea. I am not sure if thy even control placement.

3. Um ok. That sounds right. What file is that in? Seems like we could set them to like Bamboo 24 and Sword Grass 28 or soemthign long those lines.

EDIT:

Ok Found it. Here is the growth rate ...

Sword Grass = 28
Bamboo = 24
Forest = 20
Savanna = 20
Jungle = 16
Date Palm = 16
Coconut Palms = 16
Prickly Pear Cactus = 12
Barrel Cactus = 12

Well that's at least one thing I can change myself. Uploading it to the SVN.

 

[climat]

RoM_Terra map script place all new features and terrains, including bamboo. But I couldn't find Fossil and Tar Pit. It was a standard size map.
What is different between this map script and others?

Screenshots.

1. You can see Bamboos. I think +2 is too much. +1 and +1 or +1 and +1 (Asian people eat Bamboo shoots) maybe?

2. Barren tile and Volcanoes. Its graphic definitely should be changed..

3. Savanna is placed on grasslands. I think it should not be placed on grassland. It should be placed on Scrub (Mainly), and Plains (A few).

4. Permafrost and Salt Flat. No resource on these tiles. (Note that I updated file so that salt can be placed on Salt Flat. But it is still rare. You can see there is one salt in large salt flat area)

5. Date palm on Rocky hill does not give +1 as described. (Note that I make rocky tile give +2 , so 3 was shown on Rocky hill.) Plants on Rocky tile except forests seems really weird to me, anyway.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Ok so I solved one problem.

I was able to make a new terrain for barren to have and once I did the button showed up.

So I will go push on the SVN for the new barren terrain texture since it works. I am going to just leave the grass the way it is since you can tell lush from grasslands still.

EDIT: I am also getting a weird interaction between the new Barren terrain and Scrub terrain. Anyone know how to fix this?

EDIT2: Permafrost and Dunes seem to have the same problem. However they are rarer to see together on the map.

 

[Hydromancerx]

RoM_Terra map script place all new features and terrains, including bamboo. But I couldn't find Fossil and Tar Pit. It was a standard size map.
What is different between this map script and others?

I tried to load RoM_Terra and I have all the features but no new terrain types (except for lush and muddy).

 

[AIAndy]

I tried to load RoM_Terra and I have all the features but no new terrain types (except for lush and muddy).

Do you have the CvMapGeneratorUtil.py I posted earlier installed? That is the one that adds the new terrains with several standard scripts like Fractal but only works if the new terrain is activated.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Do you have the CvMapGeneratorUtil.py I posted earlier installed? That is the one that adds the new terrains with several standard scripts like Fractal but only works if the new terrain is activated.

So far I have put in from you guys are ...

AIAndy
- Assets/Python/Screens/CvWorldBuilderScreen.py
- Assets/Modules/Resources/New Terrains/NewTerrain_CIV4FeatureInfos.xml

climat
- Assets/Modules/Resources/New Terrains/NewTerrain_CIV4ImprovementInfos.xml

What am I missing?

EDIT: Guess I am missing ...

- Assets/Python/Screens/CvMapGeneratorUtil.py

 

[AIAndy]

That last one does not belong in the Screens folder but directly into the Python folder. I am not sure if it is a good idea to push that to the SVN as it will break stuff if people play without the new terrains.

Attached are two map scripts:
PW2 now places all features.
The other is a bug fixed and adapted version of PerfectMongoose (PW3). That one will probably need some playing around with the settings still though.

 

[AIAndy]

EDIT: I am also getting a weird interaction between the new Barren terrain and Scrub terrain. Anyone know how to fix this?

EDIT2: Permafrost and Dunes seem to have the same problem. However they are rarer to see together on the map.

The attached file should fix that.

 

[Hydromancerx]

That last one does not belong in the Screens folder but directly into the Python folder. I am not sure if it is a good idea to push that to the SVN as it will break stuff if people play without the new terrains.

Should I take it off the SVN then? Where should I put it?

I am not sure how optional we can make these new terrains.

 

[AIAndy]

Should I take it off the SVN then? Where should I put it?

I am not sure how optional we can make these new terrains.

Indeed, they interface with so many things that optional is not really feasible.
So I guess push the new file and we try to get the whole new terrain thing working soon.

The remaining things to do are:
1. Extend the rest of the map scripts or at least several more
2. Change the bonus info xml so the bonuses are spawned on the new terrain where fitting
3. Work on the feature info xml (adding the rock formations, balancing the appearance/spawn chance)

I'll continue working on the map scripts.

 

[AIAndy]

Here are all 3 PW scripts working with the new terrain. They also use the sea level setting now. For PerfectMongoose the climate setting works now which means you can have tropical, arid, rocky or cold worlds instead of the normal one. I'll add the same to the other PWs later.

 

[strategyonly]

UPDATED Version 17, 11 Sep 5:50 p.m.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@AIAndy

Can you make it so that the volcano never spawn on hills or mountains? They hover in the air if they are placed on them. Restricting them to flat ground would solve the hovering issue.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Indeed, they interface with so many things that optional is not really feasible.
So I guess push the new file and we try to get the whole new terrain thing working soon.

The remaining things to do are:
1. Extend the rest of the map scripts or at least several more
2. Change the bonus info xml so the bonuses are spawned on the new terrain where fitting
3. Work on the feature info xml (adding the rock formations, balancing the appearance/spawn chance)

I'll continue working on the map scripts.

Are you putting seals and walruses on the maps? There is a python file C2C_Terrain_Addons.py in Assets/Python/DancingHoskuld which was the post script until I found out that the GameStart was being called by scenarios as well. Duh! t has some things that probably need to go in the map scripts.