New trade system?
- Thread starter Kouvb593kdnuewnd
- Start date
Kouvb593kdnuewnd
Left Forever
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 4,146
In rise of nations the caravans do form roads but that is purely cosmetic.
stealth_nsk
Deity
I'm quite puzzled with those traders. Using units for diplomatic negotiations and/or trade routes is a hell of the micromanagement.
I imagine traders could be used for establishing initial trade contact with each civilization once. This use is rare enough to be not too much micro, the traders could discover lands behind borders where scouts can't walk and all this has realism background (like Marco Polo). However the only gameplay reason for this is requirement to actually reach other civs / city states for negotiations. But this looks quite small reason to implement a new type of unit.
I imagine traders could be used for establishing initial trade contact with each civilization once. This use is rare enough to be not too much micro, the traders could discover lands behind borders where scouts can't walk and all this has realism background (like Marco Polo). However the only gameplay reason for this is requirement to actually reach other civs / city states for negotiations. But this looks quite small reason to implement a new type of unit.
Kouvb593kdnuewnd
Left Forever
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 4,146
I think what they call traders are more or less the caravans you see in civilization 5. This don't mean they work in the same way however. I wonder if the roads will decay or disappear if trade is halted, my guess is no. However I think roads will cost maintenance and the connection bonus between cities may no longer be in the game.
This would mean only civilizations who produce the needed gold can afford establishing trade routes and trade is a key to city specialization not unlike real life.
This would mean only civilizations who produce the needed gold can afford establishing trade routes and trade is a key to city specialization not unlike real life.
stealth_nsk
Deity
It was mentioned you can "position" them to spot other civ buildings. It sounds like a unit you move manually. If such unit is used for establishing trade route - that's what I call micromanagement hell.
Kouvb593kdnuewnd
Left Forever
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 4,146
I hope not they are like the covered wagons in Civilization Colonization, atleast you can automate them.
Maybe they are like the caravans in Civilization Revolution who you send to another civilization city for gold (or maybe if that is the case in VI to establish a trade route) but that could just be done with the current V system.
The trade routes in Civilization V do however uncover the fog of war on the route tiles but that don't have that much exploration value, maybe their sight range have been greatly extended but otherwise work like in V.
Maybe they are like the caravans in Civilization Revolution who you send to another civilization city for gold (or maybe if that is the case in VI to establish a trade route) but that could just be done with the current V system.
The trade routes in Civilization V do however uncover the fog of war on the route tiles but that don't have that much exploration value, maybe their sight range have been greatly extended but otherwise work like in V.
Kouvb593kdnuewnd
Left Forever
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 4,146
You have not been able to choose the direction of the trade route in Civilization V and you can not choose how the road is created in Civilization Revolution.
Loaf Warden
(no party affiliation)
My big hope for the trade system is that caravan routes will no longer be divorced from, you know, actually trading with another civ.
I liked the concept of the Caravans and Cargo Ships from BNW, but the way it was just grafted on to the game without altering anything about how you trade resources made no sense. Like, you could meet with a leader and agree to send them Gems in exchange for their Silk, but neither side would need to send a Caravan. Meanwhile, you had Caravans going off into a different Civ altogether whom you had no trade agreements with. And if you wanted to play as an isolationist, in the vein of Sakoku-era Japan, you could refuse to make trade agreements with anyone . . . but you couldn't do anything to prevent other civs' Caravans from forming routes with your cities.
I was perfectly fine with the "trade resources automatically through agreement in diplomacy"; that's how it's worked since Civ III. I also liked the idea of building Caravans and Cargo Ships and sending them off to trade with other civs. What I've never liked is the weird hybrid system where you had both but they had nothing to do with each other. I hope that, with trade routes and trader units (or whatever they are) being in Civ VI from the beginning, it will be a more thoroughly integrated system.
I liked the concept of the Caravans and Cargo Ships from BNW, but the way it was just grafted on to the game without altering anything about how you trade resources made no sense. Like, you could meet with a leader and agree to send them Gems in exchange for their Silk, but neither side would need to send a Caravan. Meanwhile, you had Caravans going off into a different Civ altogether whom you had no trade agreements with. And if you wanted to play as an isolationist, in the vein of Sakoku-era Japan, you could refuse to make trade agreements with anyone . . . but you couldn't do anything to prevent other civs' Caravans from forming routes with your cities.
I was perfectly fine with the "trade resources automatically through agreement in diplomacy"; that's how it's worked since Civ III. I also liked the idea of building Caravans and Cargo Ships and sending them off to trade with other civs. What I've never liked is the weird hybrid system where you had both but they had nothing to do with each other. I hope that, with trade routes and trader units (or whatever they are) being in Civ VI from the beginning, it will be a more thoroughly integrated system.
stealth_nsk
Deity
It's good point. We actually had 3 trades in Civ5 - diplomatic trade, caravans and city connection. Some more robust system would be good, unless it would hurt the rest of the game.
If trading resources with other civs and city-states would appear with pillageable trade routes, this would greatly increase the importance of naval units (considering the trade route pillage mechanics works well enough).
Production and food can be transported via the caravan and cargo ship in civ 5
Minor Annoyance
Deity
Beyond Earth had resource trading via actual trade routes.
Trade routes are in as it is more or less mentioned they are keeping a lot of BNW mechanics (ie: we're not getting a stripped down vanilla game like we did with Civ4 or Civ5 vanilla) so I assume it will be a caravan unit to start.
It could well be that these trading units appear for each city if you've built a market district or some district you need so the upkeep of trade route doesn't become a distraction in the early game.
It could well be that these trading units appear for each city if you've built a market district or some district you need so the upkeep of trade route doesn't become a distraction in the early game.
Heinage
Khan
You both make good points. I hadn't thought of that disconnection between the various trade mechanics in Civ V...
Yes, there should be one trade mechanic that covers all of these nicely
Caravans were added into BNW so the disconnect is understandable.
What I would like to see improved with Caravans is some clarity and perhaps some reciprocity when it comes to international trade.
I often find AIs will pile in on trading with me, then switch out after the caravan is due for renewal. Perhaps another Civ is more profitable> It's never clear, but the lack of sustained continued trading from Civs that are 'close allies' tend to break the immersion for me.
The game could either code AI to prefer trading with friends or build in financial incentives, like a bonus for 1) maintaining the trade route for longer than 1 term 2) trading with friends.
What I would like to see improved with Caravans is some clarity and perhaps some reciprocity when it comes to international trade.
I often find AIs will pile in on trading with me, then switch out after the caravan is due for renewal. Perhaps another Civ is more profitable> It's never clear, but the lack of sustained continued trading from Civs that are 'close allies' tend to break the immersion for me.
The game could either code AI to prefer trading with friends or build in financial incentives, like a bonus for 1) maintaining the trade route for longer than 1 term 2) trading with friends.
I'm thinking one thing with trade routes though is should there be duties or levies. Say if I have a city that is between 2 civs that are trading with each other.
If trade routes are travelling between those 2 civs (through my land) I should be able to tax some gold off the trade route - say 10-15% of the income.
After all that is how cities like Constantinople & Venice made so much money as multiple trade routes intersected through those cities. And the government of those cities isn't going to allow goods to flow through a port without a tax on them - especially if they are going elsewhere. It does add an extra layer to trade where one can consider placing cities in strategic positions and force trade routes to pass through a city.
If trade routes are travelling between those 2 civs (through my land) I should be able to tax some gold off the trade route - say 10-15% of the income.
After all that is how cities like Constantinople & Venice made so much money as multiple trade routes intersected through those cities. And the government of those cities isn't going to allow goods to flow through a port without a tax on them - especially if they are going elsewhere. It does add an extra layer to trade where one can consider placing cities in strategic positions and force trade routes to pass through a city.
Heinage
Khan
+1 to this too
Actually thinking about this a bit further you could also add this feature into diplomacy.
For example
Lets say 2 civs have a trade route which passes through my land. The default duty could be 15% of the income of the trade-route per turn (deducted from the income of the civ that initiates the trade route).
Now in diplomacy or in a trade window I could have the option of changing the rate of duty which would effect the relationship with that civ.
I could grant a
1) reduced trade duty of 10% per turn (for a small diplomatic benefit)
2) increased trade duty of 25% (but anger the civ that i put the tax on)
3) remove duty altogether (you'd do this as part of trade tribute or if you were trying to improve relations with a civ.
4) or return the duty to the standard 15% if I had changed it from this.
You'd be able to change this for each civ - it can be used as a tool to bully neighbors or to reduce their gold income. Alternative you can try and improve your relationship with a neighbor.
I'd also put a lock on the trade duty in that you can't change it for at least 15 turns - for gameplay reasons. However another civ is still allowed to demand you to remove or reduce a trade duty - and you can do it under that circumstance. Warmonger civs may even threaten to attack you unless you remove the standard trade duty on them.
So it should add another level of interaction with civs (thus trade routes can now involve a 3rd party)
If they still have the two systems, I would like it if they would interact.
For example, you can set up a caravan trade rout to another civ. And after this, you can trade resources via diplomacy screen. So that the trade route is the prerequisite for spontaneous diplo trade. And if your route gets pillaged, the diplo trade is also impossible.
Because trading resources directly via caravan trade route doesn't really give you control over what to trade. I disliked this system in BE:RT.
Kouvb593kdnuewnd
Left Forever
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2012
- Messages
- 4,146
Civilization V trade system created food and production out of thin air.
Similar threads
