New UNESCO world heritage sites - which have Civ wonder potential?

[The_J]

The UNESCO recently announced the new world heritage sites, see this news item:
https://en.unesco.org/news/danube-limes-added-unescos-world-heritage-list-closing-years-inscriptions
On the UNESCO list are many famous cultural and natural sites https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/ , like the Great Wall of China or the Taj Mahal, which we all also know as being wonders in various Civ parts.

This year a combined list of 2020 and 2021 has been published. Which site do you think is Civ-worthy?
Here is the list, as taken from the UNESCO website:

Newly inscribed cultural sites, 2020 nominations:

• The Great Spa Towns of Europe (Austria, Belgium, Czechia, France, Germany, Italy, United Kingdom)
• Frontiers of the Roman Empire – The Danube Limes (Western Segment) (Austria, Germany, Slovakia)
• Colonies of Benevolence (Belgium, Netherlands)
• Sítio Roberto Burle Marx (Brazil)
• Quanzhou: Emporium of the World in Song-Yuan China (China)
• Cordouan Lighthouse (France)
• Mathildenhöhe Darmstadt (Germany)
• Kakatiya Rudreshwara (Ramappa) Temple, Telangana (India)
• Trans-Iranian Railway, Islamic Republic of Iran (Iran, Islamic Republic of)
• Padua’s fourteenth-century fresco cycles (Italy)
• Dutch Water Defence Lines, inscribed as an extension to the World Heritage site of Defence Line of Amsterdam (Netherlands)
• Chankillo Archaeoastronomical Complex (Peru)
• Roșia Montană Mining Landscape (Romania)
• Ḥimā Cultural Area (Saudi Arabia)
• Paseo del Prado and Buen Retiro, a landscape of Arts and Sciences (Spain)
• Arslantepe Mound (Turkey)
• The work of engineer Eladio Dieste: Church of Atlántida (Uruguay)

Newly inscribed natural sites, 2020 nominations:

• Colchic Rainforests and Wetlands (Georgia)
• Amami-Oshima Island, Tokunoshima Island, Northern part of Okinawa Island, and Iriomote Island (Japan)
• Getbol, Korean Tidal Flats (Republic of Korea)
• Kaeng Krachan Forest Complex (Thailand)

Newly inscribed cultural sites, 2021 nominations:

• Settlement and Artificial Mummification of the Chinchorro Culture in the Arica and Parinacota Region (Chile)
• Sudanese style mosques in northern Côte d’Ivoire (Côte d'Ivoire)
• Nice, Winter Resort Town of the Riviera (France)
• ShUM Sites of Speyer, Worms and Mainz (Germany)
• Frontiers of the Roman Empire – The Lower German Limes, (Germany, Netherlands)
• Dholavira: a Harappan City (India)
• Cultural Landscape of Hawraman/Uramanat (Iran, Islamic Republic of)
• The Porticoes of Bologna (Italy)
• Jomon Prehistoric Sites in Northern Japan (Japan)
• As-Salt - The Place of Tolerance and Urban Hospitality (Jordan)
• The Franciscan Ensemble of the Monastery and Cathedral of Our Lady of the Assumption of Tlaxcala was inscribed as an extension of the World Heritage property of Earliest 16th-Century Monasteries on the Slopes of Popocatepetl (Mexico)
• Petroglyphs of Lake Onega and the White Sea (Russian Federation)
• The works of Jože Plečnik in Ljubljana – Human Centred Urban Design (Slovenia)
• The Slate Landscape of Northwest Wales (UK)

Inscribed natural property and extension, 2021 nominations:

• Ivindo National Park (Gabon)
• Extension to Ancient and Primeval Beech Forests of the Carpathians and Other Regions of Europe (in Bosnia Herzegovina, Czechia, France, Italy, North Macedonia, Poland, Slovakia, Switzerland)

Which of these cultural sites has civ-potential?
Let us know .


(natural sites were excluded, due to limited poll options)


Follow this discussion on Twitter: https://twitter.com/civfanatics/status/1424031114914631686

 

[The_J]

There is a bit of an issue obviously on what you could build, e.g. the Arslantepe mound is not actually a building, although you could probably think of a mechanism to include a site of permanent, pre-historic settlement. And then there is the uniqueness, e.g. the Cordouan Lighthouse is obviously not as important as the lighthouse of Alexandria. I still voted for the Limes, although the Great Wall of China is in these regards more important. I might change my vote maybe, gonna see.

 

[FXS_Ed]

Great poll! Interested to see what you all think.

 

[Zaarin]

Makes me wonder: would being a UNESCO World Heritage Site be a copyright workaround to get some Frank Lloyd Wright in the game--say, Fallingwater or Taliesin (or even the Guggenheim Museum)? I absolutely adore his work.

More on topic, this is a really interesting idea. I have a hard time imagining how some of these might be implemented, though. With only three votes I didn't vote for it, but I actually think those Welsh Slate Landscapes would make a lovely Natural Wonder. I voted for Arslantepe Mound, Chankillo Archaeoastronomy Complex, and the Church of Atlántida.

There are some well-established UNESCO World Heritage Sites I'd also very much like to see added to the game. Mt. Ararat has been at the top of my Natural Wonder wishlist for quite some time. Denali (not UNESCO), Jeju Island, and the Cedars of the Gods would be some other good possibilities. In regards to world wonders, I'd also like to see Gyeongbokgung, Naqsh-e Rostam, and Registan or Shah-i Zinda, among others.

 

[Naokaukodem]

My personal culture is very poor (compared to your at least ^) and I can't bother to read all it up, but the most interesting wonders would be the most ancient ones and also the ones which seem hard to implement, just for fun. (for me)

 

[The_J]

Makes me wonder: would being a UNESCO World Heritage Site be a copyright workaround to get some Frank Lloyd Wright in the game--say, Fallingwater or Taliesin (or even the Guggenheim Museum)? I absolutely adore his work.

I don't think there are any copyright issues, no? Things this public can't be excluded from being... represented.
(but I'm no professional in this area)

More on topic, this is a really interesting idea. I have a hard time imagining how some of these might be implemented, though. With only three votes I didn't vote for it, but I actually think those Welsh Slate Landscapes would make a lovely Natural Wonder.

There are some well-established UNESCO World Heritage Sites I'd also very much like to see added to the game. Mt. Ararat has been at the top of my Natural Wonder wishlist for quite some time. Denali (not UNESCO), Jeju Island, and the Cedars of the Gods would be some other good possibilities. In regards to world wonders, I'd also like to see Gyeongbokgung, Naqsh-e Rostam, and Registan or Shah-i Zinda, among others.

I don't know how it is in Civ6, but I think at least in comparison to Civ5 there should be simply an expansion of the natural wonders necessary, to give more diversity on the map. I think this would also work without giving them too big bonuses.
Although I could imagine some special type of "achievements" (not necessarily implemented as such, but rather as civ-specific goals), e.g. have X querries in a region as... the English (no offense, but Wales will not make it into the game) for X years, and you'd get some sort of bonus (together with a specific improvement on a random tile in this area, with a unique name like the Welsh slate landscape).

I was thinking this could also work for the Limes. In Civ4 we had fortresses (which I remember not being very useful improvements, but I didn't play on high level). Have a civ have 5 fortresses along a single river, make them hold it for X years, gives you a specific defense bonus in this cities, together with a unique name/improvement.

I voted for Arslantepe Mound, Chankillo Archaeoastronomy Complex, and the Church of Atlántida.

I'd have my problems with the Arslantepe mound as being something "built", so not sure if Civ-worthy, but I'd definitely like to see it.

but the most interesting wonders would be the most ancient ones and also the ones which seem hard to implement, just for fun. (for me)

I think some could only be implemented as concepts, but then they are already kinda in.
e.g. the mummies of the Chinchorro culture... so in Civ5 we have excavations and tourism, in Civ4 we have buildings which increase in culture over time. This would be the only benefits which I could think of for this type of cultural site.

And while e.g. Nice is a very nice city, I'd have no clue how you'd put that in, unless you fill it again in under "tourism" (as well as the spa towns).

 

[Zaarin]

I don't think there are any copyright issues, no? Things this public can't be excluded from being... represented.

All of Frank Lloyd Wright's designs are under copyright; I don't know if being a UNESCO World Heritage Site makes portraying them fall under fair use, though since the intent is commercial rather than educational I'm inclined to guess not. I would guess that even the seven Frank Lloyd Wright designs that are UNESCO classified would still require paying royalties to the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation.

I'd have my problems with the Arslantepe mound as being something "built", so not sure if Civ-worthy, but I'd definitely like to see it.

Well, Civ5 had El Dorado and Civ6 has Paititi so there is precedent; it would be easy enough to extend that to a genuine prehistoric site rather than fictional lost cities. Would be a great way to depict something like Mesa Verde or Chaco Canyon, too--kind of suggests a great new category of wonder, Prehistoric Wonder. (Also suggests that Stonehenge should probably be shifted over to that category, too. Other additions might include Tara/Newgrange, Knossos, nuraghe, Mississippian mounds, etc.)

 

[Krajzen]

Thank you for linking this, I never thought to actually check for new yearly UNESCO sites, such a cool way to get more knowledge.

However I don't think most of those things work as civ wonders, most of them aren't Great Singular Objects or at least Big Complexes and that format is necessary for the game.

I voted for Kakaitiya Rudreshwaea and Chankillo because they'd workd the best in a game like civ (and because I have been lobbying for more Indian presence in the game for a long time).

 

[The_J]

All of Frank Lloyd Wright's designs are under copyright; I don't know if being a UNESCO World Heritage Site makes portraying them fall under fair use, though since the intent is commercial rather than educational I'm inclined to guess not. I would guess that even the seven Frank Lloyd Wright designs that are UNESCO classified would still require paying royalties to the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation.

I wasn't aware of this mess, and I wasn't aware that it's even possible!
Their loss though .

Well, Civ5 had El Dorado and Civ6 has Paititi so there is precedent; it would be easy enough to extend that to a genuine prehistoric site rather than fictional lost cities. Would be a great way to depict something like Mesa Verde or Chaco Canyon, too--kind of suggests a great new category of wonder, Prehistoric Wonder. (Also suggests that Stonehenge should probably be shifted over to that category, too. Other additions might include Tara/Newgrange, Knossos, nuraghe, Mississippian mounds, etc.)

Well, in theory, we're also building pre-history, in some way, so I'd not move it away. Although there probably should be a place for important remnants. But then again, I think that was a bit like this already in Civ5, so this is a bit complicated .

However I don't think most of those things work as civ wonders, most of them aren't Great Singular Objects or at least Big Complexes and that format is necessary for the game.

I voted for Kakaitiya Rudreshwaea and Chankillo because they'd workd the best in a game like civ (and because I have been lobbying for more Indian presence in the game for a long time).

While I agree with you, I wonder (as I basically thought about in my last post) if there'd be concept-wise space for "distributed" wonders. So constructions, for which multiple cities need to participate.
If these are necessarily "worth it" in the general perception, that is a different question, yes.

 

[Zaarin]

Well, in theory, we're also building pre-history, in some way, so I'd not move it away. Although there probably should be a place for important remnants. But then again, I think that was a bit like this already in Civ5, so this is a bit complicated

Yeah, the game definitely starts on the cusp of proto-history and history. Many (but not all) of the prehistoric landmarks were definitely built within this timeframe. It still seems to me like the simplest way to handle it since they weren't built by any civilization that is or could be in the game (though Firaxis doesn't seem to mind adding early wonders that were built by prehistoric/protohistoric civs like Stonehenge and the Great Bath).

 

[Birdjaguar]

Is Zhangjiajie National Park in China included yet as a natural wonder?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Zhangjiajie was declared a UNESCO site in 1992