New Unit - Land Mine
- Thread starter pesoloco
- Start date
Ok, I wouldnt be suprised by this but how were they fused? It was my impression that most of the weapontry was fairly simple during that era. Batterys were not available for contact switches. You could do a pump to prime but that would require the soilder stand on it and bounce there foot repeatedly. Not trying to discount it as I think its cool, Just curious.
Actually the hunley used water based torpedos. Basicly non motor driven put on a long pole on the front on the ship it would basicly ram with the torpedo. Course it was a 1 shot deal and stood a good chance of doing more damage to the hunley then the enemy.
My thoughts on using mines is you really need to deploy multiple levels of mines. at least industrial and modern age ones. Too bad you cant add an unhappiness flag to them. The problem with land mines is there rather indiscriminate in whole they kill. This doesnt lead to a happy population when little joey goes running into the field and finds one. Countrys where they have been heavily used are still not happy. There are several hundred deaths worldwide due to the blasted things every year.
Actually the hunley used water based torpedos. Basicly non motor driven put on a long pole on the front on the ship it would basicly ram with the torpedo. Course it was a 1 shot deal and stood a good chance of doing more damage to the hunley then the enemy.
My thoughts on using mines is you really need to deploy multiple levels of mines. at least industrial and modern age ones. Too bad you cant add an unhappiness flag to them. The problem with land mines is there rather indiscriminate in whole they kill. This doesnt lead to a happy population when little joey goes running into the field and finds one. Countrys where they have been heavily used are still not happy. There are several hundred deaths worldwide due to the blasted things every year.
Exsanguination
No longer here
just an idea... dunno if it is even possible though.
maybe if it is possible you could make it so the mines kill ANYONE (regardless of nationality) who comes in its way - including you. Not only would it make it more realistic, it would solve part of the problem of the AI stacking them up all around their cities.
maybe if it is possible you could make it so the mines kill ANYONE (regardless of nationality) who comes in its way - including you. Not only would it make it more realistic, it would solve part of the problem of the AI stacking them up all around their cities.
pesoloco
Civ-aholic
as far as i know, any units that you create will never attack your own units, even if they have hidden nationality. Even though there was this one time i played (before the patch came out) where when my workers ran back to the city, the infantrymen and riflemen guarding the city shot and killed them. (this sounds very strange but it actually happened - obviously a bug) it only happened that one time. never happened again.
At first I was leary and theres still some problems with using this unit but I do like it.
Problems:
1: AI cant figure out how to us it.
2: Setting it to hidden nationality causes a kamakazi storm from my neighboors unless I assign units to protect my mines which just seems silly.
I actually installed it twice. I use it as a sea mine (sinks in ocean) and it works nicely there too. Again the same problems with the AI and hidden nationality.
Id like to see a cant be in city flag.
Also if you build a bunch the ai views it as military combat strength. They are after all units.
Very cool idea though.
If you have the time id like to see a sea mine graphic. Id do it but I cant draw a straight line with a ruler much less the computer.
Problems:
1: AI cant figure out how to us it.
2: Setting it to hidden nationality causes a kamakazi storm from my neighboors unless I assign units to protect my mines which just seems silly.
I actually installed it twice. I use it as a sea mine (sinks in ocean) and it works nicely there too. Again the same problems with the AI and hidden nationality.
Id like to see a cant be in city flag.
Also if you build a bunch the ai views it as military combat strength. They are after all units.
Very cool idea though.
If you have the time id like to see a sea mine graphic. Id do it but I cant draw a straight line with a ruler much less the computer.
First, create a new unit called 'Mine Layer/Infantry Transport' or whatever. Give it the Radar Artillery graphic. Give the unit move-2 attack-0 defense-0, Carry 2, Carry Foot Units Only, requires the tech that tanks require (I forget). Creat the land mine unit, give it move-1, attack0, defense-10, bombard attack-30, bombard range-0, bombard rate of fire-3, Foot Soldier, Immobile, Hidden Nationality, requires same tech as the mine laying unit. The mine laying unit doubles as an infantry transport, and the mine will damage units as they attack a tile, but will be less effective against more modern units, simulating their increased ability to detect mines. Any of the numbers except the zeros can be changed for balance. Also, you'll need to create a capture animation for the mine layer.
fimp
Viking
I thought the idea with mines were that the enemy shouldnt be able to see them, but they can in the game, right?
Squiggy
Chieftain
Personally I think that the land mines should become available with Replacable Parts and after Electronics, opponents can detect them if they're in a certain range of a city with Barracks, or within range of a Battleship or AEGIS cruiser.
This might be hard to program, but would be very realistic.
This might be hard to program, but would be very realistic.
pesoloco
Civ-aholic
If you are worried about the enemy seeing the land mine, give it the Stealth ability. I believe this will solve your problem.
Joben
Queensguard
*This discusion operates under the theory that the units in Civ are representative of a military squad not and individual (a group of infantry not a single soldier)
This makes sence sine to make 'one' worker requares a citezen which represents about a thousand ppl.
*Your own units being able to move through your mind field makes some sence.
your own ppl would know what areas were mined, they would have maps of what areas to avoid while they continued useing the farms etc.
However because of this we would have to assume that the ENTIRE terrain square was not mined so obviously their dmg would have to be fairly light.
Since an attacking force would run into a few lines of mines as they moved not solid totaly filled miles of terrain.
*About hidden nationality and Stealth. Stealth seems reasonable and combineing those two atributes would cut down on the AI suicididing on your mines.
*However while individual mines are hidden an enemy will learn fairly soon were they are (such as one killing someone). so seeing what squares are mined is something that can be argued for.
its a pity you cant release units from your control and turn them into barbarians. In SMAC you could release alien liform units into the wild (even ones you had built) If Civ3 had a similar option for realism porpuses you could have the mines turn into barbarian units when they were deployed (and they are imoble so you would be all set).
But that would require programing triggers to tell if the mine was deplyed or not so it could decide if it was time to go barbarian so im just dreaming
This makes sence sine to make 'one' worker requares a citezen which represents about a thousand ppl.
*Your own units being able to move through your mind field makes some sence.
your own ppl would know what areas were mined, they would have maps of what areas to avoid while they continued useing the farms etc.
However because of this we would have to assume that the ENTIRE terrain square was not mined so obviously their dmg would have to be fairly light.
Since an attacking force would run into a few lines of mines as they moved not solid totaly filled miles of terrain.
*About hidden nationality and Stealth. Stealth seems reasonable and combineing those two atributes would cut down on the AI suicididing on your mines.
*However while individual mines are hidden an enemy will learn fairly soon were they are (such as one killing someone). so seeing what squares are mined is something that can be argued for.
its a pity you cant release units from your control and turn them into barbarians. In SMAC you could release alien liform units into the wild (even ones you had built) If Civ3 had a similar option for realism porpuses you could have the mines turn into barbarian units when they were deployed (and they are imoble so you would be all set).
But that would require programing triggers to tell if the mine was deplyed or not so it could decide if it was time to go barbarian so im just dreaming
Joben
Queensguard
the world did not begin with the invention of the dry cell battery.
(And dont confuse 'old' with 'simple' or 'obvious' ppl still cant figure out how to make Greek Fire and if you get right down to in a bow or a trebuche is a pretty impresive exercise in phisics
)There are and have been many types of mines im not shure how the early ones were triggered but i would think it was a mechanical trigger of some sort spring driven i would imagine.
Remember you dont need electricity to ignite explosives.
Guns have done without it for hundreds for years.
They use a spring driven hammer to detonate a small charge which in turn ignites the main propelant.
Sea mines or as you as they were called at first torpedoes were set off by
the force of the ship hitting a blasting cap sorta thing on the mine (I think).
I would imagine that landmine worked and/or worked in a way similar to either that or a gun
Edit: for slight clarification.
Joben
Queensguard
Could you give them teh submarine flag?
then you could give the 'see subs' flag to the mine layer/troop transport
unit suggested earlyer.
kill two birds with one stone: mine deploying and enemy mine detecting.
then you could give the 'see subs' flag to the mine layer/troop transport
unit suggested earlyer.
kill two birds with one stone: mine deploying and enemy mine detecting.
I,ve made 3 (three) mines avail. in my game
They are:
OZM-3_Land_Mine (upgrades to OZM-4)
OZM-4_Land_Mine (upgrades to OZM-72)
OZM-72_Land_Mine
Stats:
OZM-3 = A/D/M = 0/20/1
OZM-4 = A/D/M = 0/25/1
OZM-72 = A/D/M = 0/30/1
Wheeled
Hidden Nation
The Civlopedia is aready done. Now I,m just working out the requirements for when they will be allowed to be built.
Any suggestions would be great.
They are:
OZM-3_Land_Mine (upgrades to OZM-4)
OZM-4_Land_Mine (upgrades to OZM-72)
OZM-72_Land_Mine
Stats:
OZM-3 = A/D/M = 0/20/1
OZM-4 = A/D/M = 0/25/1
OZM-72 = A/D/M = 0/30/1
Wheeled
Hidden Nation
The Civlopedia is aready done. Now I,m just working out the requirements for when they will be allowed to be built.
Any suggestions would be great.
Pal {UI}
Can't talk, eating.
Not sure if this can be done (I'm not a mod programmer) but...
I think that land mines are not so much a defensive weapon, as a way of denying all nations access to certain land areas, with the side effect of leaving them economically useless for a period. They also can deny or reduce movement speeds along roads and railroads and make airports and harbors useless for a period.
Ideally landmines would be weapon delivered by artillery, bombers or a special minelayer unit onto empty land squares.
They could then:
- Have a 50/50 chance of causing massive bombard damage to a unit that passes over them. Maybe reduce this to a 25% chance of damaging friendly troops?
- would restict movement to all units attempting to pass through the square (i.e. all units have will stop in the mine square and cannot move out until the next turn irrespective of railroads and roads).
- Can be cleaned up by worker units as a type of pollution, possibly with a random "disease" type risk to the worker?
- If they are in a city square they can cause the square to be polluted, and any population put to work in those squares becomes immediately unhappy until moved out.
Bombers and artillery could also bombard minefields to clean them up or reduce the damage odds, but of course when bombarding a square the improvements might also be destroyed before the mines are cleared.
Personally I think that mines should always be visible to everyone, as most will be known to the local population who will tell your units.
The best way for this unit to work would be if the mines were automatically cleaned up after a period of time (its unrealistic to expect mines to last more than say 50 years). The only exception might be to have mines in areas that are not within anyones borders lasting longer. Could mines simply automatically turn into pollution after a specific number of turns (say 4)? This and the fact that they might damage your own units would make them a tricky unit to use on a city or area you are about to invade.
Could you also have mines dropped in the middle of a city to stop the functioning of the airport and/or harbor for a turn? Alternatively how about mining a city resulting in it not being able to launch any planes or ships for a turn?
Soz if none of the above is possible.....
:crazyeyes
I think that land mines are not so much a defensive weapon, as a way of denying all nations access to certain land areas, with the side effect of leaving them economically useless for a period. They also can deny or reduce movement speeds along roads and railroads and make airports and harbors useless for a period.
Ideally landmines would be weapon delivered by artillery, bombers or a special minelayer unit onto empty land squares.
They could then:
- Have a 50/50 chance of causing massive bombard damage to a unit that passes over them. Maybe reduce this to a 25% chance of damaging friendly troops?
- would restict movement to all units attempting to pass through the square (i.e. all units have will stop in the mine square and cannot move out until the next turn irrespective of railroads and roads).
- Can be cleaned up by worker units as a type of pollution, possibly with a random "disease" type risk to the worker?
- If they are in a city square they can cause the square to be polluted, and any population put to work in those squares becomes immediately unhappy until moved out.
Bombers and artillery could also bombard minefields to clean them up or reduce the damage odds, but of course when bombarding a square the improvements might also be destroyed before the mines are cleared.
Personally I think that mines should always be visible to everyone, as most will be known to the local population who will tell your units.
The best way for this unit to work would be if the mines were automatically cleaned up after a period of time (its unrealistic to expect mines to last more than say 50 years). The only exception might be to have mines in areas that are not within anyones borders lasting longer. Could mines simply automatically turn into pollution after a specific number of turns (say 4)? This and the fact that they might damage your own units would make them a tricky unit to use on a city or area you are about to invade.
Could you also have mines dropped in the middle of a city to stop the functioning of the airport and/or harbor for a turn? Alternatively how about mining a city resulting in it not being able to launch any planes or ships for a turn?
Soz if none of the above is possible.....
:crazyeyes
Stainz,
I would like to have a copy of your three mines setup when complete.
Pesocola,
Did you think that you would get this response?
How about a B-52 Bomber when you guys get time.
thanks
As for the mining issues. For every aspect of war there is always something to counter that threat. How about creating mineclearing tanks and mineclearing vessels? Also, I have recently read that there are nuclear naval mines. . .
I would like to have a copy of your three mines setup when complete.
Pesocola,
Did you think that you would get this response?
How about a B-52 Bomber when you guys get time.
thanks
As for the mining issues. For every aspect of war there is always something to counter that threat. How about creating mineclearing tanks and mineclearing vessels? Also, I have recently read that there are nuclear naval mines. . .
pesoloco
Civ-aholic
No, I didnt expect so much interest in the land mines. Stainz, are the graphics for your mines all the same or are they different? Also, could you post your civilopedia entries, I would do it but I am short on time right now. (College projects - due dates always come sooner then you think!)
I'll work on the B-52 bomber and mine clearing tanks as soon as I get the chance.
tstowe, thanks for all your input and ideas... I'm working on it. I think you'll be pretty happy with what I come up with.
I'll work on the B-52 bomber and mine clearing tanks as soon as I get the chance.
tstowe, thanks for all your input and ideas... I'm working on it. I think you'll be pretty happy with what I come up with.
Dark Sheer
Deity
Actually I won't be surprise that they actually have mines during Civil War. In fact, nothing much surprises me anymore after what I see in china last year.
I discovered that the chinese army has already been using crossbow that uses auto loading of bolts at about 200BC!! Man, their swords were still made of bronze and yet they have automatic crossbow!!
I discovered that the chinese army has already been using crossbow that uses auto loading of bolts at about 200BC!! Man, their swords were still made of bronze and yet they have automatic crossbow!!
The man can type, but can't spell worth a ****. haha Sorry about gouging your name pesoloco.
Yes, I am very pleased with your units and I am looking forward to many more. Of course, I am continuing my search for more challenging units for you.
Stay alert, Stay Alive!
Yes, I am very pleased with your units and I am looking forward to many more. Of course, I am continuing my search for more challenging units for you.
Stay alert, Stay Alive!
Joben
Queensguard
Originally posted by Dark Sheer
Actually I won't be surprise that they actually have mines during Civil War. In fact, nothing much surprises me anymore after what I see in china last year.
I discovered that the chinese army has already been using crossbow that uses auto loading of bolts at about 200BC!! Man, their swords were still made of bronze and yet they have automatic crossbow!!
The chinese invented the crossbow itself in about 400 BC.
before that they were using normal bows with 100-150 pound draw weights!
i dont even want to think about what that would do to you if you got hit.
Ive been reading Sun Tzu's Art of War,
(i got a copy from Amazon with some useful backround info in it too)
good stuff much of it directly aplicable to Civ
go get a copy now its a suprisingly interesting read and more useful
than most of the stratagy guides writen directly for games (cheaper too).
Well, I,m done. Here,s what I think the mine(s) should be like( ? )
Three choices to choose from:
All credit for gfx and stuff, goes to, pesoloco.
Thanx for such a wonderful killing unit.
Unfortunatly, I only use these mines for the Russians and a few select Civs. As I play as a Civ that I made, Canada.
But the sh@ty thing is, I keep crashing whenever I hit F4 ( Diplomacy ):
But I am going to make ( alter ) mines for every Civ that is in the original game v1.6f based off the original by pesoloco.
And no, I,m not tring to a**kiss. I just wish i could figure out that FLICster thing ):
The old mines gfx along with my try at FLICster listed as, "opt. animation"
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