New Unit Wish Lists ?

[MajorFallout]

Update:

Armies
With the advent of the Military Academy, there could be an off-shoot unit from that tech with the ability to create armies at will.

 

[dcaint]

I love the invisible paratrooper/SF idea- that would be a very accurate unit to add (think 82d Airborne on D-day.) Maybe it could be made so that they could only be seen by other infantry units or something like that.

The transport plane is also a good idea- I have always though it kind of ******** that you can't airlift workers/settlers.

Specialty aircraft in the modern era would be nice- in the vein of A-10 vs. F-15 vs. Apache, etc. This would allow the advantage of a custom-built air force, but wouldn't give anyone a special advantage, because the player would still have to balance what aircraft would do the job. I would think something like the A-10 would have a higher attack vs. land units but a lower defense and no bombing, the F-15 (or similar) would have bombing and recon, and the Apache would probably be similar to the A-10 (for Civ purposes, anyway.) How about a Spectre gunship as a UU for somebody? At least that would be more useful than those F-15's for the Americans. Since we're on that topic, whose idea was it to make it completely impossible for air units to kill other units? Are they saying that a B-52 cannot devastate a battlefield? It's also not quite realistic to have so many naval units, but only fighters and bombers in the air.

In general, what about more espionage-type ideas? The spyplane idea would be very useful, so would satellites (probably satellites as a SW.)

Also, some better ways to defend against sea attacks would be good. There's no reason a battleship should be able to bomb the snot out of me from 2 squares away and I have no defense but to send a jet fighter after them, which cannot kill them no matter how hard you try. Also, what about a hit-and-run option, especially for subs? I mean, really, how many subs stick around to slug it out with a battleship? They should get a shot off and split. This would allow a naval civ to implement the wolfpack idea a la Kriegsmarine should a player choose.

And while I'm dreaming, I'd like a pony.......

 

[n8mac]

dcaint,

About the naval defense against battleships, the coastal fortress can take shots at ships. I have never built one, this from the manual. I don't think that coastal fortresses can sink ships, over if they defend during a bombard. Has anyone used these things?

Interesting point. The manual says that the coastal fortress increases defense of units in city 50%. WHAT?! Naval units can't attack cities.

Just had an idea. I think that harbors and coastal defenses need to be given more importence. Give them physical attributes and stats that naval and air units can attack. If a naval unit wins then no more harbor and trade is disrupted. Plus there needs to be a new improvement: military ports. (ever heard of pearl harbor?) They would be required to build modern ship and to repare them. Who ever heard of a battleship comming out of a harbor? Then naval battles would center around destroying these improvements, no more military port = no more big ships.

 

[dcaint]

If the coastal fortresses can really take MEANINGFUL shots at passing enemy ships, then someone needs to let the guys manning mine know. They were very useful in Civ II, virtually useless in Civ III. My beef was simply that I liked to screen my harbors with cheap submarines, but in Civ III the battleships come in and lob shells from 2 grid squares away, and then when the subs attack, they generally get sunk. I would think the point of a sub would be to take a shot, knock off a point or two, and fade into the blackness. Thus, a wolf pack would be necessary to really sink a capital ship, and this is realistic.

Re: the coastal fortresses: I am not sure if this is a bug or an oversight, but the ones I have built have not done a d**n thing unless the attacking naval vessel is bombarding the city directly. They appear to be free to bomb outlying areas all they want with impunity.

The idea of a military port is great. Actually, the whole thing here is a little more ability to customize naval/air forces. It would not require a whole re-engineering, just two or three more units and one or two more city improvements, and you're there.

Of course, this is coming from a military history-type guy. I am sure there are people out there whon would advocate allowing a modern-arena-type improvement to upgrade a colosseum or something like that. What we are asking for is more accurate combat simulation, and I think there are games out there more geared to that.

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by dcaint
If the coastal fortresses can really take MEANINGFUL shots at passing enemy ships, then someone needs to let the guys manning mine know.

I believe coastal fortresses are only intended to work when an enemy ship is left adjacent to the coastal city, at the end of one's (AI's) turn. If we do infact get PTW / MP, we may see this occur due to human error; however, I don't believe a random element was programmed in here for the AI. It knows; therefore, it doesn't leave ships vulnerable. You could test it. Spy on an AI coastal city to see if it has a coastal fortress, then leave your ship adjacent to it at the end of a turn.

 

[MacBaldrick]

I think the idea of a military port required to produce warships is great. It can be an city improvement over several era. Could we make it speed production of Frigates etc. and be essential for modern ship (from Destroyer on) ?

dcaint, you should know that Henry VIII building of a dedicated dock at Portsmouth was a major military technological step and during the 18th century the English build the world first purpose built 'factory' in Portsmouth dockyard.

Do we need to start a thread on best new city improvements to solicit ideas like dcaint's mil port and minefields mentioned above ?

For the modern era how about variations on fortification like field trenches (disappear if unoccupied for 2 turns ?)/ barbed wire (stops all movement of ground troops but not tanks & increases hit points taken) with later upgrade to tank-trap capabilities (stops tanks).

In later Middle Ages / early Industrial make fortifications built next to city square part of city defence ? Replaces expiring city walls.

How about Propaganda as a minor wonder ? It would suppress some war weariness, requires printing press & when upgraded by Radio removes war weariness. Free to Communist governments perhaps.

 

[easy]

Something I want that so far no one has mentioned is actual unit construction like in Alpha Centauri. Techs would give abilities and advancements. Start off with warriors (foot soldiers) get spears, shields, swords, bows, body armor, horses, motorized transport, tracked vehicles, so on... This would mean that all the ideas for new units could be side stepped because they could be built. Carrier with ASW characterristics. Horse drawn artillery. Hover tanks would be awsome like in the board game Fortress America. Minefields could be seeded by workers, minesweepers (sea based workers), and bombers and cleared by workers and minesweepers, but not aircraft.

 

[ejday]

Originally posted by easy
Something I want that so far no one has mentioned is actual unit construction like in Alpha Centauri. Techs would give abilities and advancements. Start off with warriors (foot soldiers) get spears, shields, swords, bows, body armor, horses, motorized transport, tracked vehicles, so on... This would mean that all the ideas for new units could be side stepped because they could be built. Carrier with ASW characterristics. Horse drawn artillery. Hover tanks would be awsome like in the board game Fortress America. Minefields could be seeded by workers, minesweepers (sea based workers), and bombers and cleared by workers and minesweepers, but not aircraft.

Interesting idea but AFAIK, that's not the way the Civ3 engine works. The best approximation would be seemingly-upgraded -- but technically new -- units. Or a wider selection of units with each advance. Custom jobs, though, would have to be added by you as an option with the editor.

I like the idea though. I remember "Pax Imperia" had that kind of flexibility when designing ships and I loved it. Just don't think Civ3 could hack it.

 

[Reddwarfian]

Personaly, I'd like to give the Americans a new Civ-specific unit: Minutemen.

Replaces the Musketmen, same stats, 2/3 the cost!

Just my 2¢

 

[dojoboy]

Originally posted by Reddwarfian
Personaly, I'd like to give the Americans a new Civ-specific unit: Minutemen.

Replaces the Musketmen, same stats, 2/3 the cost!

Just my 2¢

I like the idea. I was thinking of an elite special forces unit as America's UU (maybe an A/D/M of 6/10/2 with the ability to retreat). I figure the ability to retreat would be for "hit and run" capabilities since it'd be unlikely to find a way to give them a one-tile cloak feature.

 

[MinutiaeMan]

I'd had the same idea about Minutemen as a new UU for America... except I figured that they would best replace the Rifleman. (Given that the American Revolution was closer to the Riflemen era, even though they technically used muskets -- which IMO are mainly a late-Middle Ages unit.)

I think that the sea mines and minesweepers are a serious oversight in the game as it is; the manual mentions that blockades of enemy ports is possible; but it's actually kinda unrealistic -- at least in the way I play. You need to literally block every possible ocean square surrounding the enemy's sea borders with a ship... a ship that's got a chance of holding the blockade, too. Mines would be a whole lot more cost-effective, unpredictable, and just plain fun.

The cruiser idea is interesting, but I don't think it's really that necessary to have too many kinds of offensive ships in the same era. The only exception would be a defensive naval unit, for patrolling your borders. (Once I get to Robotics in a long-running game, I usually try to cover my coastline (near the capital) with AEGIS cruisers to hold off the nuclear subs.

On a similar vein, what about giving ALL ships the ability to see subs when Robotics is discovered?

Another of the big peeves I've had is the Cruise Missiles -- those things pack some nice bombardment power, but IMO their range is far too short. I'd like to see them either (1) given a four-square range or (2) allow them to be loaded onto Battleships -- say, two or four of them. As it is, about all I do with them is stockpile several dozen if I'm playing from an island or subcontinent somewhere, to lob at any approaching amphibious assault before they reach the shore. (That worked to my advantage once; three transports full of troops were coming and their escort had sunk all my ships that could get there in time, but I managed to wipe ALL of them out before they even landed thanks to the cruise missiles!)

A super-battleship sounds like an interesting idea, but I'm not sure if that would work well in the game, historically speaking. In the real world, the battleship has played second fiddle ever since the end of WWII. I think they already have too much importance in the late-Modern Era as it is.

 

[jwill]

Originally posted by easy
Something I want that so far no one has mentioned is actual unit construction like in Alpha Centauri. Techs would give abilities and advancements. Start off with warriors (foot soldiers) get spears, shields, swords, bows, body armor, horses, motorized transport, tracked vehicles, so on... This would mean that all the ideas for new units could be side stepped because they could be built.

This would be a really good idea. You research the gun, for example, then you make a foot unit with a gun in hand. Heck, if you thought even more, you could make some unit with two handguns! You could make a tank with machine guns too. It would be cool.

The American Minuteman would be good too; I was thinking of making them faster, but less sheilds to produce works as well. The British could have their Redcoat (if there was anything special about them).

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

There was the idea being tossed around in the general discussion forum of having a minuteman be a draftable riflemen unit for the americans, that didn't cause any unhappiness. That would be cool, but I still don't really think a minuteman would be the best for the job, as the GA doesn't really fit.

For the americans, a special forces type unit I'd think would be best, replacing the Marine, or perhaps the paratrooper. That would probably be an appropriatedly timed GA. This is the unit I'd like to see.

 

[MinutiaeMan]

The comment about a draft unit that doesn't cause unhappiness gave me an idea... what if (in a democratic country only) you were allowed to draft a defensive unit from a city, just like a normal unit -- but the drafted unit will only be in existence for a certain number of turns (maybe 5?). As a trade-off, the unhappiness factor would be reduced by half (or more).

This would probably require some changes to the hard-coding of the game, but would be a cool idea...

The reason I thought of it was because of the American Civil War, when President Lincoln issued the draft call, for only three months of service. People were plenty eager to join up at that point, but when the Union needed more troops for a longer term of service, people started getting unhappy.

Also, what about reducing unhappiness due to the draft in a country fighting a defensive war? In World War II, there wasn't nearly the resistance to the draft (as far as I'm aware, historically) as compared to the Vietnam War.

 

[ejday]

Originally posted by MinutiaeMan
...draft a defensive unit from a city, just like a normal unit -- but the drafted unit will only be in existence for a certain number of turns (maybe 5?). As a trade-off, the unhappiness factor would be reduced by half (or more).

This would probably require some changes to the hard-coding of the game, but would be a cool idea...

Very cool idea. You know, Civ3 was built on the ideas of fans. If Civ4 becomes a possibility, this is an idea I'd submit for consideration.

...Also like the minefield idea (a couple posts up). Heck, I'd like minefields for ground areas, as well. Have to wait for the editor to see what can be done.

 

[ejday]

Originally posted by MajorFallout
How about these units:
Engineer worker - for building specialist buildings, motorways, bridges etc. This unit could be upgraded from a normal worker to this specialist unit for a small fee.

Workers could build a new type of road; a motorway/freeway - allows movement to be doubled.

Good ideas. I'd been tossing around similar ideas myself. Thoughts on workers' tasks:
Superhighways: A middle of the road road? Double the move value. Like it. Don't know if it's possible... we'd actually have to have an editor to find that out.
Terraforming: The ability lost from Civ2 should be reestablished. We have limited terraforming (forests and jungle to grasslands/plains), but I don't know enough about the game engine to know if we can chop mountains to hills or not (and desert to plains, etc.). We know the game can do it when pollution goes nuts, so that might be a good sign we could do it too. Again, we'll have to wait for the next life when we have an editor to find out...
Engineers: A two-move worker. More expensive, but with enough of them, you could conceivably build a road to a distant resource in a few turns (or one turn) as opposed to twenty freaking turns while your population goes nuts because their only luxury belly-button lint.
Dredging and landfills: How, I wonder, if terraforming is possible, could we build lakes or dredge bays so a city with no sea access could get access? Would a city be dynamically refreshed? IE: would the engine recognize the city now had water and make sea-related improvements available? How about the opposite? Too much sea? Between dikes and landfills, we've taken space back from the sea: could we have engineers fill in sea squares to make new land?
Atlantis: Civ:CTP had sea and space cities. That was cool. Is it a possibility with the Civ3 engine?

 

[jwill]

Terraforming would be great to add. I'd like Replacable Parts to speed up production in cities, and having a separate worker for every age - each one working faster and more effiecently than the previous one.

 

[DiamondzAndGunz]

Originally posted by ejday


Engineers: A two-move worker. More expensive, but with enough of them, you could conceivably build a road to a distant resource in a few turns (or one turn) as opposed to twenty freaking turns while your population goes nuts because their only luxury belly-button lint.

I had an engineer unit in my game for a while. It replaced the settler/worker, and cost as many shields as a settler, but only 1 pop point. It had 3 movement, and could perform all worker functions/settle a city. It came with motorized transportation (had all these cool little truck animations n such), and i also flagged motorized transportation to increase worker speed, so it worked twice as fast. They came in very handy. It was based on the engineer unit from the Unit Library.

Yes, they really should have an engineer unit, that also gives some extras. The ability to terraform, quickly build roads/railroads, and anything else which you'd desire... Filling in/creating sea squares would be great, since sometimes you find yourself with a great spot, but it's 1 space away from coast... They could also be used to lay land mines, for example, or even sea mines. Possibilities are endless...

 

[dcaint]

Well, if we're going to go there.....

Why not Combat Engineers? Comes with Motorized Transportation, has all of the attributes you described, but also has an A/D factor. Could even be a UU for America or Germany (think SeaBees). Usable in combat zones to fill in the road spaces to new targets- probably should only be able to lay roads and build airstrips, not establish cities or colonies. Probably could also lay the minefields we've all been clamoring for.

Actually, that should probably not cost a pop point either, since they cannot be used to relocate a population.

By the way, on the minefield thing- why not make it a terrain improvement? Has same effect on a unit crossing the square as passing a fortified armor unit does in the current game, but renders square unusable for production for nearby cities. Only way to clear mines will be to send Engineers in to clear it, just like pollution. That way the player cannot just surround cities with mines and sit back- they must be managed or they wreak chaos on your own population (sound realistic?).

Boy, Civ4 is gonna need, like, 5 gig of free disk space just to hold all the nifty new units we're coming up with!

 

[elpadrino87]

ejday mentioned dredge bays and such, which would definitely be cool. It made me think of something that definitely should be in Civ IV. You know how rivers travel along the border of tiles? I really think we should be able to transport stuff along it, like luxuries, resources, and mabye even units since things like this did and still does happen. Or at least have workers (or engineers) be able to build canals. It would be really useful if sea units could have canals to travel from one side of a continent to another, like the Panama or Suez. It can be pretty frustrating when you realize that you can't create a connection between two bodies of water with a city, since they can't be placed next to each other.

On a slightly different note, does anyone think that maybe there should be an upkeep (not large, just a small one) for roads or at least rails? Maybe pay for roads or rails that are outside of the radius of cities, guessing 1gpt for 5-10 tiles of road. This would definitely make the players as well as the AI rethink how they are going to place their roads. Only an idea, not entirely a suggestion, just throwing it out there.