New Units
- Thread starter Gogf
- Start date
ChrTh
Happy Yule!
That's why if you're intelligent, your attacking force is a nice mix of offense, defense, bombard, and mobile. No one using catapults correctly will defend with swordmen.
Tacit_Exit
King
Hwachas are lethal again (both sea and land) but only 8 bombard.
Nice compromise. I might even try Korea now, if I can drag myself away from the Mayans
Nice compromise. I might even try Korea now, if I can drag myself away from the Mayans
Gogf
Indescribable
Hold it! So H'watchas are now normal cannons with lethal bombard? That is FAR worse than the Chasqui scout (of course, having artillary for your unique until was never good...).
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
You release you can wipe out an enemy's army without getting hurt, right?
Gogf
Indescribable
Yes, but I would have preferred a normal unit, because the you only need one unit to kill a unit. Maybe if you have the H'watcha teh ability to bombard (and only bombard) more than once per turn, so it was a 0.0.1 8.1.1 (4) [<is bombard four times per turn].
Louis XXIV
Le Roi Soleil
But a normal unit can get killed and the defender can get a promotion.
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
It looks like lethal bombard isn't getting enough credit. It's comes in very handy. I would almost say it should have 2 for a ROF, but then it would probably be overpowered.
MarineCorps
Explosion!
lethal bombard is an easy way to get your unit promoted without risking losing it.
Tacit_Exit
King
Re Hwacha: Just try putting forty of these babies underneath a Musketman Army and see what can be done 
Gogf
Indescribable
I agree lethal land bombar is good, but you still need no invest a lot of shields, in order to kill one veteren unit in one turn.
My take is that they took h'wacha from a reasonably good unit (though not one of the best UUs) and made it into a completely broken disaster that will need to be addressed in the next patch.
A stack of defensive units and 100 h'wachas and you win the game? YUCK!
Of course, I think lethal land bombard for bombers and the stealth units is completely broken, too. I predict it won't last past the first real patch. The end-game is now even more senseless to play. Sigh!
My $.02,
Arathorn
A stack of defensive units and 100 h'wachas and you win the game? YUCK!
Of course, I think lethal land bombard for bombers and the stealth units is completely broken, too. I predict it won't last past the first real patch. The end-game is now even more senseless to play. Sigh!
My $.02,
Arathorn
statusperfect
Warlord
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 145
The new bombart are controversial. But you shall not forget the AA units in that equation Arathorn
Yes, I did. Having not been a beta-tester, I really have no clue how well AA units will play, how well the AI will use them, or any of that. I just suspect the worst, which is probably not fair.
But AAs won't save the h'wacha. Lethal bombard for artillery is a dangerous path. I can see it making a lot of sense for sea (or being broken). Now, why I was intelligent enough to reserve judgment on lethal sea bombard and not intelligent enough to think more in-depth about lethal land bombard is a good question....
Arathorn
But AAs won't save the h'wacha. Lethal bombard for artillery is a dangerous path. I can see it making a lot of sense for sea (or being broken). Now, why I was intelligent enough to reserve judgment on lethal sea bombard and not intelligent enough to think more in-depth about lethal land bombard is a good question....
Arathorn
Actually, I don't believe it... If you're playing on deity level, you need to conquer a civ pretty quick (to get great leaders and more land)... playing with the maximum number of opponents the map is usually filled very fast. The opponents exchange techs very rapidly, so very soon they'll get pikemen and stuff. Even with a perfect start, you still don't have time to build more than 10-15 swordmen before the attack if you want to stand a chance (so you can force him to give away his techs).
My question is now, even if you've got cattles everywhere, how do you have time to build those 40 catapults, 10 swordmen and 10 spearman or whatever you think is a good army? I'm not stupid, I understand 40 catapults are powerful, but when do you have time to build them?
The thing is, many people who say they're playing on deity level play against 4 or 5 opponents on a standard, and I'll tell you, that's nothing... I read the stragedy guide on this page (babylonians) and the guy who wrote it used a simular tactic to mine.
But, I still want you guys to convince me. I would do anything... well not anything but anyway... to see someone conquer the world with 16 opponents on a huge world map using stacks of catapults and cannons... I'm sure someone knows how to do it, would be really cool if someone recorded a game and posted here!
My question is now, even if you've got cattles everywhere, how do you have time to build those 40 catapults, 10 swordmen and 10 spearman or whatever you think is a good army? I'm not stupid, I understand 40 catapults are powerful, but when do you have time to build them?
The thing is, many people who say they're playing on deity level play against 4 or 5 opponents on a standard, and I'll tell you, that's nothing... I read the stragedy guide on this page (babylonians) and the guy who wrote it used a simular tactic to mine.
But, I still want you guys to convince me. I would do anything... well not anything but anyway... to see someone conquer the world with 16 opponents on a huge world map using stacks of catapults and cannons... I'm sure someone knows how to do it, would be really cool if someone recorded a game and posted here!
Bad Brett, have you read Bamspeedy's tale at
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66169
??? And that's without lethal bombard.
It's not at all unusual to have 60-80 cannons built by early IA. With the ability to kill with impunity (h'wacha), no units will be lost conquering cities, even against deity foes. This means war is now a matter of WHEN than IF.
Of course, it's not just stacks of cannons/catapults, you need some other units with it, but check out nearly any current SG and you can see stacks of artillery used as the major part of any offensive.
One SG a while back had Charis using units from over a full age behind the leaders, including primarily bombard units, to make progress against far superior foes. Time ran out before they could win (space launch), but there's no doubt all bombard units are incredibly powerful even without lethality. Adding lethality makes it broken, I contend.
40 'pults, 10 swords, 10 spears is an OK army. And, yes, it should defeat musket-defended cities. Timing is still critical, though.
Arathorn
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66169
??? And that's without lethal bombard.
It's not at all unusual to have 60-80 cannons built by early IA. With the ability to kill with impunity (h'wacha), no units will be lost conquering cities, even against deity foes. This means war is now a matter of WHEN than IF.
Of course, it's not just stacks of cannons/catapults, you need some other units with it, but check out nearly any current SG and you can see stacks of artillery used as the major part of any offensive.
One SG a while back had Charis using units from over a full age behind the leaders, including primarily bombard units, to make progress against far superior foes. Time ran out before they could win (space launch), but there's no doubt all bombard units are incredibly powerful even without lethality. Adding lethality makes it broken, I contend.
40 'pults, 10 swords, 10 spears is an OK army. And, yes, it should defeat musket-defended cities. Timing is still critical, though.
Arathorn
Emperor Xerxes
Custom User Title? NEVER!
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2003
- Messages
- 570
Well, whatever, I think the Cossack improvement has been long overdue. Hopefully now none of the Civs have any REALLY inane UUs, even the English boat can now enslave.
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
I think the F-15 will still have a solid hold on the worst UU title.
BorgeoisBuffoon
Local Idiot
I can only hope that a dragoon unit besides the Spanish conquistador is in there. Both for historical intrests, for filling out the calvary tree, and because they were a snazzy unit in Civ2. 
thestonesfan
A Client of Ron Kuby
As far as the Dragoon goes, there won't be one in the normal game, but the Austrian UU is a Hussar which I think I'll edit in as a Dragoon.
Or, I might replace the original Cavalry with the Hussar and use the Cav art as a Dragoon, since he is using a gun.
And yes, the Dragoon in Civ2 was a favorite of mine as well.
Or, I might replace the original Cavalry with the Hussar and use the Cav art as a Dragoon, since he is using a gun.
And yes, the Dragoon in Civ2 was a favorite of mine as well.
