New Version - August 18th (8-18)

[Aristos]

The AI has become a builder. Period. And a good one at that. Granted, some of us are missing "that other AI" because we also like some punches here and there, and are spoiled into manipulating the civ AIs easily. But this new builder AI is clearly more difficult to deal with (it can and will outbuild you).

Is it a perfect balance now? I don't know, maybe not there yet. But it is eons ahead of the best FXS could throw at us, and take my word for granted, it is right now eons ahead of what civ6 will throw at us for a very long time. You shall see.

Feedback is good. I am also seeing more "friendliness" than what we are used to, but I am not sure it is a bad thing. Let G do his work (and remember, the teacher is on vacations now, respect that).

EDIT: as for feedback, I saw yesterday something I haven't seen before: twice Napoleon DoWed the Turks, and both times peace followed a very, very short time afterwards. In the first DoW, it was literally the very next turn; in the second occasion, it happened some 3-4 turns later. Might be related to the present discussion? Some threshold for APPROACH out of bounds perhaps?

 

[tu_79]

EDIT: as for feedback, I saw yesterday something I haven't seen before: twice Napoleon DoWed the Turks, and both times peace followed a very, very short time afterwards. In the first DoW, it was literally the very next turn; in the second occasion, it happened some 3-4 turns later. Might be related to the present discussion? Some threshold for APPROACH out of bounds perhaps?

Probably a peace was brokered. That's another reason why we don't see now big conquering civs.

It's good to see AI working well at building and playing so well at the World Congress, it's not that I miss all AI attacking mindlessly. It's just that I've seen moments when, imo, a civ could have won a lot by conquering some cities and it just sat idle building things.

 

[Gazebo]

I hear what you say here, but there's an inherent dilemma here. Because on one hand, an AI that DoW you without any chance of winning breaks immersion. On the other hand, an AI that just sits around passively once you become top dog is boring (and, I suppose, also breaks immersion). I'm very torn on the "chaos" feature the developers supposedly have worked into the Civ 6 AI, because I hated how insane Civ 5 early AI seemed - but on the other hand, when AI starts acting too rational, it's also not ideal.

Anyway, that's just my 5 cents. The fact that in the game I referred to, it was not only in relation to me but also between AI's there was no war did strike me as something being off. Everybody were, literally, friends with everybody else. Several civs happily sat around with just one or two cities among vast empty lands and did nothing. But again, that might just have been a fluke.

The "chaos" feature is a fancy way of saying "our AI relies on a lot of RNG calls." And that's especially interesting, considering how many Civ 5 AI decisions were simply a roll of the dice (over and over and over again).

Side note: Firaxis's absolute silence on the modding front, and cold shoulder to modders generally, is really starting to worry me. They're more than happy to fly youtube streamers out to play with Civ 6 (and net free advertising), but they've said nary a word to the prolific modders such as JFD, Whoward, or the CPP team (at least, I've not heard of any outreach).

G

 

[Aristos]

Side note: Firaxis's absolute silence on the modding front, and cold shoulder to modders generally, is really starting to worry me. They're more than happy to fly youtube streamers out to play with Civ 6 (and net free advertising), but they've said nary a word to the prolific modders such as JFD, Whoward, or the CPP team (at least, I've not heard of any outreach).

G

And that surprises you? They would silence you to death if they could... you are the "shame" mirror for them, all of you, because you are showing (not talking, showing) that a good AI can be done, without a budget and on spare time... you are the walking proof that it is about quality of workers, and nothing else. And they don't like that.

Of course they will only invite the likes of quill et al... they are just marketers, average (at best) players who profit from traffic, and have only good words for anything that increases their traffic. It's a perfect (spurious) marriage. And it feeds perfectly into the market-skimming strategies at work to make the instant gratification crowd to pre-order.

See? Easy.

 

[Funak]

Side note: Firaxis's absolute silence on the modding front, and cold shoulder to modders generally, is really starting to worry me. They're more than happy to fly youtube streamers out to play with Civ 6 (and net free advertising), but they've said nary a word to the prolific modders such as JFD, Whoward, or the CPP team (at least, I've not heard of any outreach).

Isn't that how it always goes?

I would love to say that it's because you guys don't pull as many names as the youtubers, but some of the youtube-guys with civ6 videos that I've watched have been completely horrible.

I sure hope it isn't because they don't want to acknowledge modding and the fact that people choose to play mods over the base-game. And that it makes them feel inferior (which they are).


Anyways I remember hearing one of the youtubers saying that he personally asked a dev and that dev said modding with be easier in civ6 compared to civ5... so yay, I guess?


Honestly, I can deal with JFD, you or even the entire project getting dumpstered by firaxis. But wHoward, he has done more for civ 5 than any man alive or dead.

 

[Txurce]

Side note: Firaxis's absolute silence on the modding front, and cold shoulder to modders generally, is really starting to worry me. They're more than happy to fly youtube streamers out to play with Civ 6 (and net free advertising), but they've said nary a word to the prolific modders such as JFD, Whoward, or the CPP team (at least, I've not heard of any outreach)./QUOTE]

Firaxis has said Civ 6 will be very moddable. We'll see. But they have no reason to reach out to a group that has sustained interest in Civ 5 to the point that now it may actully (lightly) slow sales and, certainly, suffer by comparison.

Of course, they did reach out, in a different way: by lifting many of your concepts for Civ 6. Other than the distict concept, much of what they've featured reminds me of VP.

 

[kaspergm]

Anyways I remember hearing one of the youtubers saying that he personally asked a dev and that dev said modding with be easier in civ6 compared to civ5... so yay, I guess?

I don't know if any of you follow the once-franchise-now-joke called Heroes Of Might And Magic (well, it used to be called that, before it was run into the ground by UbiSoft). Anyway, UbiSoft also made the great announcement before Heroes 7 was released that it would be "very moddable" which turned out to be extremely NOT true, so ... I was a bit on edge when I read that announcement. But I'll give Firaxis the benefit of the doubt until anything else is shown.

 

[Zanteogo]

Firaxis has said Civ 6 will be very moddable. We'll see. But they have no reason to reach out to a group that has sustained interest in Civ 5 to the point that now it may actully (lightly) slow sales and, certainly, suffer by comparison.

I know I'm in no rush to get Civ6.

 

[Morgawr]

I don't know if any of you follow the once-franchise-now-joke called Heroes Of Might And Magic (well, it used to be called that, before it was run into the ground by UbiSoft). Anyway, UbiSoft also made the great announcement before Heroes 7 was released that it would be "very moddable" which turned out to be extremely NOT true, so ... I was a bit on edge when I read that announcement. But I'll give Firaxis the benefit of the doubt until anything else is shown.

Don't even get me started on that.. my two fave games growing up used to be Civ and HOMM. HOMM as you said was literally ran into the ground. The 7th one was the final nail in the coffin. It was so bad I wanted to cry... what a shame.

 

[Morgawr]

The AI has become a builder. Period. And a good one at that. Granted, some of us are missing "that other AI" because we also like some punches here and there, and are spoiled into manipulating the civ AIs easily. But this new builder AI is clearly more difficult to deal with (it can and will outbuild you).

Is it really more difficult to deal with? That's the fundamental Q. IMO it's not - then again I am only one person. I kept stats of my games since I started playing this mod, on same Emperor difficulty. I win at a significantly higher rate on the latest version because you can laser focus on diplo or science victory and neglect army and not worry about AI attacking or backstabbing. It did not use to be the case in older versions - I was invaded and backstabbed and had to keep up a military.

I also tried domination-only and the AI doesn't try to win in that one either. Am I choosing the wrong settings? (Emperor, standard, continents, everything standard) Or do I need to go up a difficulty level? Which defeats the point because I am playing this mod to face a challenging AI and if the AI indeed plays better now, I shouldn't have to increase the difficulty.

 

[Gamewizard]

My recent game (emperor, standard, continents) I started on a small continent with only Ghengis Khan as my neighbor, and he had no problem surprise DOWing me multiple times.

 

[tu_79]

My recent game (emperor, standard, continents) I started on a small continent with only Ghengis Khan as my neighbor, and he had no problem surprise DOWing me multiple times.

Silly question, what os do you use? Win7 or Win10?

 

[Gamewizard]

Silly question, what os do you use? Win7 or Win10?

Win10

 

[Funak]

I don't know if any of you follow the once-franchise-now-joke called Heroes Of Might And Magic (well, it used to be called that, before it was run into the ground by UbiSoft). Anyway, UbiSoft also made the great announcement before Heroes 7 was released that it would be "very moddable" which turned out to be extremely NOT true, so ... I was a bit on edge when I read that announcement. But I'll give Firaxis the benefit of the doubt until anything else is shown.

I thought the 5th and 6th games were pretty decent actually, I mean they were hardly HoMM anymore but still. Haven't gotten around to testing 7 yet.

 

[matlajs]

Is it really more difficult to deal with? That's the fundamental Q. IMO it's not - then again I am only one person. I kept stats of my games since I started playing this mod, on same Emperor difficulty. I win at a significantly higher rate on the latest version because you can laser focus on diplo or science victory and neglect army and not worry about AI attacking or backstabbing. It did not use to be the case in older versions - I was invaded and backstabbed and had to keep up a military.

I also tried domination-only and the AI doesn't try to win in that one either. Am I choosing the wrong settings? (Emperor, standard, continents, everything standard) Or do I need to go up a difficulty level? Which defeats the point because I am playing this mod to face a challenging AI and the argument is that the AI is more challenging now, I shouldn't have to increase the difficulty.

while i dont agree with how AI act in this version(will say that even i dont know previous ones) i have to say, on the other hand, that u have to have rly weird games. when i dont maintain any decent army, i rly wouldnt feel being safe. Annoying Harald Blahtot coming forward without break. And his speech on his 2nd Dow was just beautiful

 

[matlajs]

about civ 6. they managed do what i exactly hoped they will not do. make certainly that kind of arcade,komix-animated ugly graphic, which they are used to corrupt every promissing game.but i suppose that will not be end of story about civ 6 being bad. it will be like everything else. i think they should praise gods for steam platform which provide them assurance everyone will have to buy it.

 

[tu_79]

Win10

Is it possible that the players that are experiencing too friendly games are using Windows 7?

 

[Horvath Broncos]

Is it possible that the players that are experiencing too friendly games are using Windows 7?

Nope. I am using 10 and have those games where everybody loves everybody. I think the problem seems to be more usual in a bigger maps with more room. But still it didn't used to be so peaceful even in huge maps. I usually had war/wars in first 100 turns in huge maps before this patch.

 

[kaspergm]

Nope. I am using 10 and have those games where everybody loves everybody. I think the problem seems to be more usual in a bigger maps with more room. But still it didn't used to be so peaceful even in huge maps. I usually had war/wars in first 100 turns in huge maps before this patch.

I use Win10 also. But I did indeed play a large pangaea map which means fairly much space between players.

 

[Morgawr]

I have win10 as well and always play all standard settings