New Version - August 18th (8-18)

[Funak]

You could build both atomic bombs and nuclear missiles back in BNW. And there's some kind of logic behind this: atomic bombardment lowers city population with the same rate, be it atomic bomb or nuclear missile. So if you want to destroy a city you just drop an atomic bomb first and after finish it with nuclear missile. So it takes one less uranium than if you've used two nuclear missiles instead.

Yeah, and if you don't have access to iron when you've researched Gunpowder you probably still want the ability to build Trebuchets, because they are better than nothing. Same thing with Galeasses and navigation. Heck, I would love to have the ability to build longswordsmen for the rest of the game so I could get the free shock promotion from them.
I'm not saying there is no use for this, I'm saying it is following the game's rules.

 

[BliTTzZ]

Yeah, and if you don't have access to iron when you've researched Gunpowder you probably still want the ability to build Trebuchets, because they are better than nothing. Same thing with Galeasses and navigation. Heck, I would love to have the ability to build longswordsmen for the rest of the game so I could get the free shock promotion from them.
I'm not saying there is no use for this, I'm saying it is following the game's rules.

Then why you still can build Heavy bombers and Fighters when Jet fighters and Stealth bombers are avaliable? It also follows your logic with strategic resources.

 

[Funak]

Then why you still can build Heavy bombers and Fighters when Jet fighters and Stealth bombers are avaliable? It also follows your logic with strategic resources.

Why are you lying to me?

 

[BliTTzZ]

Why are you lying to me?

If i remember correctly it's true. I'll check because now I'm not sure. If so then I apologize. Otherwise will post a screenshot.
But no matter what it could've been very useful to build both AB and NM. There's just to little difference between them for such high cost increase.

EDIT: yes, it seems like these units are replaced with better versions like everything else. But I still think that NM's uranium cost could be lowered to 1.

 

[matlajs]

they don't like you?

(FRIENDLY status does not guarantee FRIENDLY approach, it could be DECEPTIVE)

Actually we are 6 on big island and except one im about +150 diplo points with the rest and befriended with all. i dont know if iron is more valuable than horse but as i said, i tried many options to see those values and it doesnt seem to me normal. they buying horse for 1GPT but selling for more than 5 or sometimes they demand for 1 iron my luxuries horses + some GPT, rly? with befriended civ? that wasnt even hostile behaviour in vanilla BNW.

 

[matlajs]

also about events. how they works, % chance?. for example floods- they always destroy 3 tilles of farms but with what chance of buildings? is there way lower that chance? maybe having walls? also where can i find Ai bonuses based on diff? King starting with +1 tech, worker, archer and also scout?

 

[LostFiles]

any plans for making mod pack?
i always play VP using mod pack because of the achivements

 

[Funak]

EDIT: yes, it seems like these units are replaced with better versions like everything else. But I still think that NM's uranium cost could be lowered to 1.

Maybe.
I think unit-lines switching strategic resource-requirements over time is a bigger issue.
The swordsman line eventually disappearing and merging with the resource-less gun-line is fine.

The horsearcher line eventually getting replaced by an Oil-unit and then a Aluminum-unit is annoying, the transition away from horses is kinda necessary (and not really much to do about it) but switching to Oil and then immediately switching over to Aluminum just feels silly.

The Bomber and Fighter line going over to Aluminum is also kinda silly, there is imho no real reason to make that jump, and there is no good reason to remove the Carrier-function from the bomber-line at the end of the game either.

As for the Horseman -> Landship line, a horse to oil transition is fine, the Giant Death Robot doesn't really feel like a continuation of that line, more like a super-unit that can get upgraded from it. I mean I'd be annoyed with the Uranium cost of it if Modern armor actually went obsolete at some point.

Catapult/dromon lines eventually transitioning into Iron-based units around the renaissance era is also fine imho. Yeah you could have the first 2 units of each line require iron as well but meh, that kinda makes the early-game way too RNG-dependent.

 

[tompliss]

Actually we are 6 on big island and except one im about +150 diplo points with the rest and befriended with all. i dont know if iron is more valuable than horse but as i said, i tried many options to see those values and it doesnt seem to me normal. they buying horse for 1GPT but selling for more than 5 or sometimes they demand for 1 iron my luxuries horses + some GPT, rly? with befriended civ? that wasnt even hostile behaviour in vanilla BNW.

Relative worth of anything also depends on the scores :
If you're doing better than they are, they won't want to give you a big advantage, so they'll try to sell you their thing for a higher price and buy for cheaper.
but even with all this, I've rarely seen a Shaka or an Askia buy/sell things at their usual price -_-

 

[Wodhann]

By the way, barbarian city screen is still a light grey screen. I don't see the 2d barbarian leader graphic.

 

[Fakoleon]

any plans for making mod pack?
i always play VP using mod pack because of the achivements

It works? damn, I want try it now ! thanks for info, I thought this mod has too much difference for achiev to work

 

[matlajs]

actually about strategic resources im excited of idea having more advanced unit requiring more strat resources. tank oil + iron etc.

 

[playshogi]

In my game, the barbs sacked a mercantile CS, but when I liberated, the jewelry was not restored. Is that a bug?

One other thing about CS: I liberated 2 different CS, the first one I got 52 influence, and the 2nd about 75 influence. Hardly seems fair; returning a worker gets a flat 50 influence. I'm wondering why 2 different amounts of influence; maybe should be a flat 100?

 

[BliTTzZ]

The horsearcher line eventually getting replaced by an Oil-unit and then a Aluminum-unit is annoying, the transition away from horses is kinda necessary (and not really much to do about it) but switching to Oil and then immediately switching over to Aluminum just feels silly.

I think that aluminum requirements should be only for high-tech units like X-COMs and Stealth bombers.
Also to increase the value of Nuclear Subs not only as ship hunters but also nuclear weapons carriers, aluminum requirement could be added for them. But in this case Missile Cruiser's ability to field nuclear missiles should be removed.

The Bomber and Fighter line going over to Aluminum is also kinda silly, there is imho no real reason to make that jump, and there is no good reason to remove the Carrier-function from the bomber-line at the end of the game either.

Because of this switching you have plenty of unuseful oil reserves. And there's not always a way to sell all the remaining oil to the AIs.
About carriers and Stealth Bombers. I think there're a few ways to balance this out.
1) Increase Jet Fighter's attack capabilities against ground/naval units.
2) Let Stealth Bombers use Carriers as other planes do, but they need a nerf to evasion. There's no real way to stop invicible Stealth Bomber raids but only to sink the Carrier they are based on.

As for the Horseman -> Landship line, a horse to oil transition is fine, the Giant Death Robot doesn't really feel like a continuation of that line, more like a super-unit that can get upgraded from it. I mean I'd be annoyed with the Uranium cost of it if Modern armor actually went obsolete at some point.

Who cares about GDR when you can spam X-COMs and Stealth Bombers and nothing else? Not only Modern Armor becomes obsolete but also Helicopters and Bazookas. Specialist units designed to hunt down tanks... but what's the point to produce them when player can do the same with his aiforce, but much more effective.

 

[matlajs]

i got ,,pick bonus'' event by my artists and i chose +200 points for next writer.new writer born and surplus of about 100 points is lost.

edit: another bug in event. i had +2 culture from my marble temporarily, now when it disappeared i have -2 in city info and my city yild just +1 eventhou i should have +3 from arena and monument.

 

[Funak]

I think that aluminum requirements should be only for high-tech units like X-COMs and Stealth bombers.
Also to increase the value of Nuclear Subs not only as ship hunters but also nuclear weapons carriers, aluminum requirement could be added for them. But in this case Missile Cruiser's ability to field nuclear missiles should be removed.

All subs already require aluminum. And I still don't see a good reason why Planes would make the oil to Aluminium transition.
Xcom could definitely have a resource requirement however, now that they aren't part of the normal melee unit-line anymore.

Because of this switching you have plenty of unuseful oil reserves. And there's not always a way to sell all the remaining oil to the AIs.
About carriers and Stealth Bombers. I think there're a few ways to balance this out.
1) Increase Jet Fighter's attack capabilities against ground/naval units.
2) Let Stealth Bombers use Carriers as other planes do, but they need a nerf to evasion. There's no real way to stop invicible Stealth Bomber raids but only to sink the Carrier they are based on.

Yeah I have to admit that I really don't see why the stealthbomber have 100% evasion, it makes absolutely no sense gameplaywise.

Who cares about GDR when you can spam X-COMs and Stealth Bombers and nothing else? Not only Modern Armor becomes obsolete but also Helicopters and Bazookas. Specialist units designed to hunt down tanks... but what's the point to produce them when player can do the same with his aiforce, but much more effective.

This argument is about as stupid as saying unit-balance doesn't matter because everything dies to a nuclear missile anyways.

 

[BliTTzZ]

All subs already require aluminum. And I still don't see a good reason why Planes would make the oil to Aluminium transition.
Xcom could definitely have a resource requirement however, now that they aren't part of the normal melee unit-line anymore.

Yeah, my bad about aluminum for subs, sorry. But still think that Missile Cruisers should not carry nuclear missiles, only regular ones. So it will make nuclear sub a bit more specialized and valuable.

Yeah I have to admit that I really don't see why the stealthbomber have 100% evasion, it makes absolutely no sense gameplaywise.

Or at least it can require 2 aluminum instead. But not sure it's an elegant decision at all.

This argument is about as stupid as saying unit-balance doesn't matter because everything dies to a nuclear missile anyways.

Uhm, stupid? Fine, if you say so. But what I was trying to say is late-game warfare becomes too boring because of Stealth Bombers and X-COMs being a little bit overpowered. This situation didn't change from the BNW.

 

[Funak]

Uhm, stupid? Fine, if you say so. But what I was trying to say is late-game warfare becomes too boring because of Stealth Bombers and X-COMs being a little bit overpowered. This situation didn't change from the BNW.

If one or two units is overpowered does it really make sense for you to shut down any discussion about other units simply because they get killed by the overpowered unit? Especially when the discussion isn't even about power, but about resource allocation.

 

[BliTTzZ]

If one or two units is overpowered does it really make sense for you to shut down any discussion about other units simply because they get killed by the overpowered unit? Especially when the discussion isn't even about power, but about resource allocation.

I didn't shut down discussion about other. Why do you think so?
Well, adding some kind of resource requierement for X-COMs is solid.
We can always discuss everything else outside of resource requirements.

 

[Stalker0]

I'm going to make a new thread to talk about late game unit requirements, as I think its a great topic to discuss and worthy of its own place.