newbie Conquerer

[The_bad]

hi!
1st: sorry for my bad english!

2nd: the question:
i have just installed "conquests" but I am a lot disappointed.
Usually i love growth my civ by way the research and after trading with others civs.
With Conquests is impossible!
the condition dictated from the other civs are absurd and isnt never convenient trade with other civs!!!

instead, with Civ III "basic", my strategy was always a winning strategy!

Why all say that Civ III "conquests" is better of Civ III "Basic"?
what am i lost?


bye bye

The Bad

 

[vmxa]

I suspect we say that because it had a number of interface improvements. It has more units and civs and new wonders, but mainly becasue it was not as easy as the vanilla.

BTW be sure to have 1.22 patch to fix some serious bugs (not all of them).

Two new traits and altering of other traits and lethal bombardment as well.

With the extra AA wonders, the free tech for Philo, it changed things. Industrial trait was nuked a bit, so if you are using it, that will not be as powerful as it was.

 

[John Lenin]

Well I can identify a lot with this question. Got Conquests just last weekend after 6 months playing PTW, during which time I could win easily on Regent but had yet to fully attempt an Emperor level game.

So I install Conquests, and after briefly checking out the Conquest scenarios (very impressive-looking but to be fully explored at a later date, I think), I started a regular game on Emperor, standard map, more aggressive AI, and playing as the Byzantines. I loved the Byzantine faction in Medieval: Total War - that was the only reason I chose 'em. Oh, and the new seafaring trait whihc I wanted to see in action.

I'll cut to the chase: I am getting my arse well and truly kicked by the AI. Glad to hear that it has been tweaked and that it isn't just me. It probably is just me to a certain degree, as I'm still using strategies from lower difficulty levels. I'm going to lose this game but intend to see it through, as it was only the losing of early vanilla and PTW games that really gave me some pointers.

Whatever's happening in your Conquests game, stick with it and then start a new game with different strategies.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

There are three crucial changes for the AI in C3C, and that's why it does so much better here than in Vanilla/PtW (and that is also the reason why most players consider C3C 'better', i.e. more challenging):

1) The agriculutural trait is finally a trait that helps the AI immensely; about the first trait the AI can handle nearly as efficient as the human.

2) Sparse resources. Now, the AI does see that lone Iron...and will settler there before you.

3) Most important IMHO: The Forbidden Palace (and overall corruption) works completely different in C3C. In fact, it was completely broken in favor of the human before .
The AI isn't able to properly place the FP; thus, before C3C, it had about zero effect for the AI, while the human got 2 different cores.
The C3C FP however is nice for the AI as well.

So, in C3C the AI does indeed better - and if they make demands, or even win...well, that is exactly what most players like about C3C.
The former versions aren't easier because C3C is broken, but because C3C simply has the more competitive AI...step down a level, and enjoy it.

 

[SJ Frank]

There are two major changes from PTW to Conquest that makes the game harder:

1) The Forbidden Palace is not a complete second palace any more. This means you can't build the FP in a really good place and expect to become twice as strong as before. Now you're at most 30-40% stronger after building the FP.

2) Contact trading has been pushed back from Writing to Printing Press. The cost of researching or buying tech depends on the number of civs that knows the tech. If rest of the AI have contact with eachother but you dont't, you're paying more for each of the tech that you buy or research.

The first change affect warmongers more, because the new territory that they conqueor can no longer be made productive by the FP. The second change affect the peaceful traders more, because now, having contacts is the most important factor in trading.

Since you're a peaceful trader, I'd suggest that you try more early exploration in your games. Try to take advantage of the new curragh unit available at Alphabet; try sending more exploring warriors out, and have them go as far as they can to meet all the civs.

There are other new Conquest features that make the game easier for you, like the new beef'ed up army, and the new hurting-units-first bombardment units. The free Philosophy tech from earlier versions of civ is also back, so now you can reach Republic earlier than ever. Try adjust your stragety to these new features.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I have only played PTW once, but the way I know C3C, the number of techs that know a given tech is VERY important in its trade price. For instance, if you are alone to know alphabet, you can often trade it for 3 commonly known techs (say Warrior Code, Bronze and Masonry) but if you are not alone, you will only be able to trade it for one tech, or not even be able to trade for it.

Try researching techs that the AI avoids: alphabet, writing, literature, engineering, chemistry, physics, electricity ...
Try also to research yourself the very expensive government techs: Republic, Feudalism, Monarchy, Communism, Nationalism: those will take a lot of gold to buy because the AI values them a lot, so you might as well research them yourself when you need them.

 

[vmxa]

I was not attempting to list all the changes, but one that has been over looked is the change to research times. It is now 50 turns, instead of 40.

No more RCP exploits and corruption now hurts.

 

[Tomoyo]

When I got C3C, I feel that it became easier... Things like the Philosophy slingshot and some interface things made it feel easier.

 

[Bluemofia]

Air power was made better, and human players can coordinate air strikes better than AI.

 

[Tomoyo]

Air power was made better, and human players can coordinate air strikes better than AI.

Don't remind me, I hate that change! The AI will build and use bombers extremely well, even if not better than the human! Those things destroy all your fighters and terrain, although I started using airfields to counter that.

 

[vmxa]

When I got C3C, I feel that it became easier... Things like the Philosophy slingshot and some interface things made it feel easier.

Feel easier, maybe, but having a second real core is so strong that previous version are easier.

 

[Tomoyo]

Feel easier, maybe, but having a second real core is so strong that previous version are easier.

But, by the time you can get a second core, you're so powerful that a victory is pretty much certain.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

C3C is easier for the diplomat and trader (because middle-man brokering, early exploration, and the SEA trait rule).

It became a lot harder for the mediocre warmonger - no more GL to rush wonders, and the resources...plus the beloved Longbows of the AI finally hurt.

It become a bit harder for the builder - resources again. But, OTOH those SGLs...

 

[budweiser]

Ring city placement is such cheese that I can barely stomach a Vanilla/PTW game when it comes along in GOTM. I like C3C so much better just for that reason alone.

I hadn't considered that fact that the AI can make such good use the agricultural trait. In fact I have been using the agricultural trait myself as a crutch. I might try to avoid it to give the poor AIs a break.

 

[Turner]

Yeah, I tend to avoid the agr trait now. I used it so much when I first got C3C. It's a nice trait, but it can be way overpowering.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Ring city placement is such cheese that I can barely stomach a Vanilla/PTW game when it comes along in GOTM. I like C3C so much better just for that reason alone.

The main reason why I never did and never will participate in a GotM. And why I played like 1.5 full games of PtW before turning my attention to mods (where terrain generally tends to be a lot more important; RCP simply isn't worth it in DyP or TEThurkan).
C3C is really a huge improvement here.

And yes, if you want a challenge - play against the strong AGR Civs (Celts, Mayans, Incas, Aztecs, and at foremost Sumeria), plus Persia and Ottomans . Full supplement of capable adversaries.

 

[SJ Frank]

Ha, I'd say the "runnaway Summerian" is one of the new features of Conquest

 

[budweiser]

I agree that Sumeria, Celts, Maya and Persia are top rivals. I'm not that impressed by any of the others, but I guess just fill the three remaining slots with agricultural civs and you will be set.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Ottomans are extremely powerful on Deity/Sid, since a neighboring AI needs to be a real powerhouse to survive the Sipahi until Infantry arrives, and even after that; standard Cavs vs Inf doesn't work, but Sipahi do.
On the lower levels, those beasts are just too expensive; on Sid at 40sp, they'll have lots of cities cranking out a Sipahi/turn.

But I agree, that's different to Sumeria, or Persia with early Iron, who rock on any given level.