Newbie just can't win on Warlord level

[mjf200]

Then what signify as "intelligently trading techs"? Not really sure (no irony whatsoever)

say you research a tech that no other AI has and you have numerous AIs in your game. You could potentially trade that one tech to each AI for something that you didn't have and gain as many techs as there are opponents. Even if you just get a few that more than makes up for the cost of research.

 

[JBossch]

Then what signify as "intelligently trading techs"? Not really sure (no irony whatsoever)

On Warlord? Trade whatever you want, the AI is researching at a disadvantage anyway. If you build enough workers and found good cities you will be so far ahead they will have nothing you need before the BCs are over.

On higher levels more calculation is required:
1) From experience, learn which techs the AI deprioritize (like aesthetics, these techs are known as "trade bait") and prioritize them yourself.
2) Trade 1 of your techs for many AI techs like Sian suggested. If you manage to meet most of the AIs early enough (scouting is crucial) it is not uncommon to trade aesthetics for Math, IW, Alpha (after 1 turn of self-research), Poly, Masonry, Sailing, and archery on Immortal/Deity. Once traded to one AI, it will usually get traded amongst them anyway, you may as well get the benefit (even if it is unbalanced) rather than hand it to another AI.
3) Recognize how the AI weight techs. They primarily consider beaker value, with some extra weight for military techs, maybe a couple others. As such, you have to consider goals. If you want GLib, don't trade Lit until you are sure you have it in the bag. Are any of the AIs industrious? Do they have marble? If you are planning on rushing your neighbor with cavalry, it is probably not a good idea to trade them rifling. Alternatively, you can generally trade away music (highly valued by the AI because of beaker cost) without fear of giving them any major advantage.

 

[admtanaka]

Although, I think, many of the biggest issues have already been touched on, I'll add my own two cents:

1. This is going to sound counter intuitive, but don't play more than one or two more games below noble. I'm not saying try and frustrate yourself by losing, but it might actually hurt you in the long run to play at levels where the AI starts disadvantaged (unless of course, playing higher levels doesn't interest you, then just do what is fun).

2. Until you get more of a feel for the game, trade techs like crazy. I won't give you a research order, but a general strategy that works is worker techs -> alphabet. "Worker techs" means techs that unlock worker units ability to improve tiles (so, hunting, mining, agriculture, pottery, animal husbandry, bronze working) then writing and alphabet. Trade for some other techs. Try to trade as close to equal beakers as possible (so if alphabet is 500, try to trade for techs that equal 500).

3. Settle your second or third city by a strategic resource. This means copper or horses.

4. Prioritize settling spots with high food above all else.

5. Initial build order in a city should be monument (if the borders need to "pop" to work resource tiles), granary).

6. After you have 2 or 3 cities, maintain 1.5 workers per city.

Hope this helps.

 

[lymond]

5. Initial build order in a city should be monument (if the borders need to "pop" to work resource tiles), granary).

unless you are creative

 

[admtanaka]

unless you are creative

what he said.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

Then what signify as "intelligently trading techs"? Not really sure (no irony whatsoever)

I'm only a monarch level player, but what I would recommend as a general rule is that you trade tech with everyone except for the guys who are way ahead of you in techs.

In individual tech brokering, AI will only accept a deal that is favorable to him/her.

The trick is, if you make many tech trades with different nations, your civilization will ultimately get the most benefit out of all the trade than all your rivals.

As an example, say you tech trade with 3 other civs. Each time, they want 2 of your tech for one of theirs. If you can make the deal with all 3 civs, each of them had better deal individually, but you just gained 3 techs, while each only gained 2 each, thus putting you ahead of the curve.

 

[lymond]

I'm only a monarch level player, but what I would recommend as a general rule is that you trade tech with everyone except for the guys who are way ahead of you in techs.

In individual tech brokering, AI will only accept a deal that is favorable to him/her.

The trick is, if you make many tech trades with different nations, your civilization will ultimately get the most benefit out of all the trade than all your rivals.

As an example, say you tech trade with 3 other civs. Each time, they want 2 of your tech for one of theirs. If you can make the deal with all 3 civs, each of them had better deal individually, but you just gained 3 techs, while each only gained 2 each, thus putting you ahead of the curve.

hey! Now that's intelligent!

And a bit later with Currency (which I generally prioritize fairly early), gold can be used to balance out trades - either way. In some cases, selling tech for gold that you can turn around and buy the techs you need.

 

[JBossch]

^^This is all true of course, but as I tried to point out earlier, its still typically advantageous to make tech trades, even if they are only between you and one AI and the tech you get is of lesser value. Even though the trade may represent a slight erosion of your position vis a vis the AI you are trading with, it advances your position relative to all the other AIs.

 

[Gaizokubanou]

^^This is all true of course, but as I tried to point out earlier, its still typically advantageous to make tech trades, even if they are only between you and one AI and the tech you get is of lesser value. Even though the trade may represent a slight erosion of your position vis a vis the AI you are trading with, it advances your position relative to all the other AIs.

But just beware that AI can trade techs with each other, so unless you make a clear benefit out of a tech you just traded to a civ for something of lesser value, you might just lose out in the end if the civ you traded your tech with ends up spread that same tech with other civs.

Hence I would still put strong emphasis on dominating the trade of your new tech that everyone wants while you still have the monopoly.

But yes, what you said will apply, especially if the tech you traded away is something that everyone else knows, or the civ you are dealing with is a loser who have no chance of making a come back anyway.

On another note, tech trading with top AI civ is bit dangerous, and I would only recommend it if you have a larger landmass (meaning, given time you will surpass the AI civ) and just need tech catching up.

Also beware of future potential conflict by taking a note on the relations with other civs. Wars followed by capitulation/tech trades for peace can make certain techs end up in the wrong hand if you are not careful.

 

[HanzooznaH]

Upon loading the save i noticed you had VERY VERY little explored and had 2-3 carracks (which can carry a settler + a military unit) just sitting around. Curious, I opened up WB and there was another continent about 3/5s the size of the one your on. (noone else is on it, just barbs.) In this specific case maintanence costs would kill you if you did settle it, but normally it is somewhat beneficial to get some "colonies" going. TO SUM IT UP :

EXPLORE EXPLORE EXPLORE!!!!11!!1!1one!!!1

 

[CornPlanter]

In this specific case maintanence costs would kill you if you did settle it

On Warlord?

 

[Astax]

Maintenance is only an issue to novices. Often I will run my empire to the ground with maintenance. Once I even ran 0% slider in multilayer for good 25 turns, while some of my axes kept disbanding each turn. Out of 100 axes i slaved up, I had 33 disbanded due to strike! But it was insignificant. Once I got writing slaved libraries everywhere and worked scientists till I got alphabet, then build research. All the while my cottages grew to overcome maintenance.

The game ended when I attacked my last remaining Human opponent with over 100 infantry and 60 artillery. His few Machine guns could not do anything

 

[Baldyr]

Then what signify as "intelligently trading techs"?

You need to take the time and effort to learn how to be a Tech broker. Here's a quick tutorial:

1. Research Alphabet, as it enables Tech trading and make contact with every Civ you possibly can, as early as you can.

2. Trade anything for anything, and with anyone, as long as its not totally ridiculous. Never, ever trade away Alphabet, since this would take the initiative from you. (Your rivals could just trade among themselves. As long as you monopolize on Alphabet all Tech brokering must go through you.)

3. Don't bother with researching all the early Stone Age and spiritual Techs and whatnot, if they don't give you immediate benefits. (Like enable you to harvest special resources.) Go for the more advanced stuff that your rivals will wanna trade for, and you'll get all the other stuff for free.

4. When the rest of the Civs finally get Alphabet you will already have a comfortable Tech lead allowing you to trade any new Tech you research for whatever anyone else has. This way you will have all available Techs, without having to research them yourself. Make sure to trade a new Tech to everyone when you decide to trade it to someone. (It would be prudent to wait until your rivals have something worthwhile to trade for, though.) Now you really need to start paying attention to what you are trading to whom, or you might just loose your Tech lead. (Especially if you're not doing that much on the research front yourself.)

As to trading resources you should always try to trade for all available luxury resources. This means that your cities can grow without discontent citizens, resulting in higher production, more and better trade routes. It might be too expensive to buy luxuries, though...

And you should always sell any surplus you have of your own. The food resources you can sell for whatever price, the luxury items should net you at least 5 per turn (initially, more later on), but wait until you can get a good price before granting a rival access to any strategic resources (that enable new and more effective units). You don't have to get the best deal immediately, but you should try to sell everything wholesale, because the income per turn does add up! You will end up filthy rich very quickly.

Check what's available on the "market" every few turns (Foreign Advisor, F4) and cancel trades that aren't all that lucrative. Look how much is available and what your rivals will buy, and sell the resources to the highest bidder! Repeat at intervals to always have the best possible deals in place.

Open Borders is an early priority with just about anyone because it will only give you benefits. Now you're pretty much playing as Tokugawa is programmed to, and he rarely gets ahead, now does he?

If you learn how to master all these trade techniques your game will be at another level altogether. Remember that it doesn't matter if your rivals benefit from trading with you, as long as you also benefit. The alternative would be that all the others are getting the benefits from trading, but not you. By being the most active trader you will always benefit the most from trade, so trade is a good thing.

 

[velcrox]

I get your point, I just think that it's pathetic that I have all these different units to build and the only one reliable is the Knight.

I get the feeling you are judging every unit just by their numerical strength score but it's much more complex than this, each unit has a specific niche.

Take a little bit more time to explore each unit available to you too, being the first civ who has access to knights is a powerful thing indeed but take a look at the other units you mentioned and the promotions available to them, it's important to note that not all units can unlock the same promotions.

I'd also suggest you familiarize yourself with the Vassalage and Theocracy civics and make sure you have barracks in your unit building towns. This will ensure you have veteran troops with free promotions as soon as they are built

*Longbows are the ultimate medieval city defence troops, their city defence promotions can make them very tough to dislodge, and if that city is on a hill then it becomes a fortress because of their extra hill defense.

*Macemen are useful for city sieges because of the city raider promotions they can take. Also the huge 50% to melee units is a powerful thing indeed.

*Pikemen are the natural medieval counter to any type of mounted unit, their modest strength of 6 is doubled against anything with 4 legs, this makes them useful to invite to the party in many situations.

If you take a combined arms approach then you will be able to deal with multiple types of threat and you'll be able to conquer much more while losing fewer units

 

[Gumbolt]

Overall you are doing what I did when I started this game. You build 5 cities and sit around to 1700ad or so when you wonder why you are so average at the game.

Dont be afraid to attack early on. Build 2 cities. Connect up copper or horse and send in 6-7 axes or horses. On warlords a warrior rush should work as they only defend with warriors early on.

Your capital is quite poor really. 34 science is shocking!! I would of perhaps farmed 2-3 tiles and cottaged the rest. Bur civic would of worked wonders. In fact i might of even moved capital to where your 2 holy shrines are.

with your capital early on animal husbandry was key as this is one of the main resources near capital. That would of shown you the horse and from there on you open the door to rushing Thebes and taking it. maybe mining also as you are imperialist.

Overall by 1ad theres no reason why you shouldnt have 8-9 cities. Dont expand slowly because you are playing warlords. The Ai expands pretty slowly on this level. Make no mistake this level gives the human player a big advantage.

I would take a lot more risks on your next game and stop building every wonder under the sun. Its got you nowhere really.

 

[Brosee]

I will get the BUG mod, it's exactly what I need, thanks.

I did convice Egypt to go to war with China once I declared war on them, because since they are currently the #1 empire I thought it would help me. It didn't. They didn't help me at all, I saw maybe one or two of their units during my battle for Beijing.

What I did realize, at this point, is that most of my units at this particular point are becoming obsolete. Maybe that's the problem. And my strongest unit by far was the Knight. That's my personal problem with CIV IV, it gets to a point where almost all units are useless. If I had a stack of 10-15 Knights it would be much better than having a stack of Knights+Macemen+Crossbowmen+Pikemen. That's just wrong.

Your last statement isn't true. A stack of 10-15 knights isn't stronger than a stack of Knights+Macemen+Crossbowmen+Pikemen with the same 10-15 in numbers. If you only have knights, your opponent just need to build pikes and they can easily halt your advance. You need varied units in a stack for stack defense. And... knights make lousy defenders when you take over a city. Lowbowman are the prime choice for that era. As a rule of thumb, you should never ever raze a capital city. Firstly because they have such a huge population which allows you to work many of the tiles in the city once it comes out of revolt. 2ndly, they usually have some wonders or religious shrines in them. 3rdly, razing and building a settler and moving it over and settling it in the exact same location is a big waste of time and hammers. The are usually in really prime locations and you wont need to move them ever.

 

[Brosee]

what he said.

Or you control stonehenge.