News: BOTM 13 Pre-game Discussion

[MacBalt]

Delaying settlement on turn on Epic is not a big deal.

How many turns delay do you think is reasonable given these settings? I was all set to blow this off as an easy Prince game until I read the posts here. After a few tests I'm still pretty worried. Thinking now that it is going to be very important to find a good capital. Would love to see what is on the other side of that plains hill, but the grass hill in the center, with its corn, pigs and river, is looking better after some reflection. Do you think it is worth the delay to check out the PH? How many turns would you say is too much delay?

 

[Erkon]

How many turns delay do you think is reasonable given these settings? I was all set to blow this off as an easy Prince game until I read the posts here. After a few tests I'm still pretty worried. Thinking now that it is going to be very important to find a good capital. Would love to see what is on the other side of that plains hill, but the grass hill in the center, with its corn, pigs and river, is looking better after some reflection. Do you think it is worth the delay to check out the PH? How many turns would you say is too much delay?

The only PH I can see has a forest and is NNW of settler. Is that the one you refer to?

Anyway, one turn for challenger, 2-3 turns for normal/adventure is reasonable. I don't see any reason to delay more than that given the starting location, but I'm not used to wander a lot either

 

[srad]

After playing the test game a second time (just the first 50 turns) I changed my mind regarding the tech path. New plan: BW first, chop barracks, Hunting, AH, Archery.
Warrior will move N and the settler probably 2 W on the warrior hill.

 

[MacBalt]

The only PH I can see has a forest and is NNW of settler. Is that the one you refer to?

Yes, that's the one. I was thinking (along with a few others, apparently) that if it has another food resource then the extra in the city would be nice.

Anyway, one turn for challenger, 2-3 turns for normal/adventure is reasonable. I don't see any reason to delay more than that given the starting location, but I'm not used to wander a lot either

Great. Thanks for responding.

 

[PieceOfMind]

Similarly, while settling on the first turn might be my first thought {I am a 'newb' after all...}, wouldn't settling a coastal capital result in later ships full of SOD's from the AIs-- i.e., more so than land based capital?

If I understand the default AI properly, it won't attack you by sea unless it has to. In other words, if the game does turn out to be one landmass it's very unlikely they'll send SODs at you by ship. I don't think they even can.

 

[Htadus]

If I understand the default AI properly, it won't attack you by sea unless it has to. In other words, if the game does turn out to be one landmass it's very unlikely they'll send SODs at you by ship. I don't think they even can.

I recall in my saladin GOTM recently (and reading others) that Izzy landed units by my capital luckyly I had units nearby and RNG luck to kill them off.

Also when I replayed the BOTM 1, Baudica did a amphibious attacked and took my coastal capital with 8 gallians worth units. I had 3 highly promoted Isimo Warriors in the capital and thought there is no way she was going to DoW. Man, was I wrong.

 

[bcool]

Is there any interest in continuing the game of the month gauntlet for another year?

I didn't get to play all of the games of the month, but it was nice to try different victory condtions and compare my results with others going for the same. I definitely learned a lot from the discussions and looking back at my games a bit more closely.

The victory condition for this gauntlet (if we do try it) seems like it would either be conquest or domination. We just had a space victory.

Thanks to all who helped support the gauntlet throughout last year.

 

[MarkM]

Hmm ... I'm not too fond of always war, and I'd like a higher difficulty than prince, but I suppose the former does address the latter a bit Not an ideal scenario, but after sitting out the last two months as the difficulties reset, I am itching to get in a game over the holidays ...

 

[PieceOfMind]

I recall in my saladin GOTM recently (and reading others) that Izzy landed units by my capital luckyly I had units nearby and RNG luck to kill them off.

Also when I replayed the BOTM 1, Baudica did a amphibious attacked and took my coastal capital with 8 gallians worth units. I had 3 highly promoted Isimo Warriors in the capital and thought there is no way she was going to DoW. Man, was I wrong.

Were Izzy or Boudica on different landmasses? What I'm trying to say is that there's a quirk in the AI where the AI will only use transports to move their army to you if there is no land route. On top of that, if the AI cannot get to your empire by land, either blocked by another nation's borders or by impassable terrain like peaks, they won't be able to reach you upon declaring war, and won't have the common sense to sail around the coast instead.

 

[Jove]

This one looks like fun! I've been playing all-war victories lately, so just to be contrary it might be fun to try for Cultural on this one. It isn't my strong suit- I don't know if I can succeed under these conditions at all. Sounds like fun!

Hmm... settling on the hill where we get 2 food tiles, gems, 5 hills and a bunch of forest looks good. I'm trying to think why we'd settle anywhere else...

 

[MacBalt]

This one looks like fun! I've been playing all-war victories lately, so just to be contrary it might be fun to try for Cultural on this one. It isn't my strong suit- I don't know if I can succeed under these conditions at all. Sounds like fun!

"Fun" indeed.

Just for kicks though, does anyone know when a Prince AI normally launches? Should we expect an earlier than normal launch based on the different tech trading dynamics in an "Always War" game like this one?

 

[kcd_swede]

"Fun" indeed.

Just for kicks though, does anyone know when a Prince AI normally launches? Should we expect an earlier than normal launch based on the different tech trading dynamics in an "Always War" game like this one?

If I recall correctly... Prince AI get to space in the mid 1900's or so. (BC just kidding, that's AD of course).

A lot depends on how many and which AI you are up against, of course... but typically I find that the "Always War" option actually slows them down since they revert so many resources to war. And since they generally don't fight each other, they tend to be geographically limited and rarely any become big monster civs. Its hard for me to say, though... if I don't have them well subdued long before advanced weapons are available, I lose by military means before space race ever becomes a factor.

Unlike a normal game, my own feeling is that you should focus on a traditional "fast conquest" type of strategy to start, and not worry about which VC you choose until later. You will either have your free choice of VC (minus diplo/relig), or you will not have any VC available.

Experts may disagree with the above. (I'm a monarch/emperor level player and fairly mediocre).

BTW: The game is UP! I will download and begin playing tonight, so you won't hear from me in this thread again. I'll either finish this game before Sunday or probably submit my first incomplete game.

Wish me luck!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Some random thoughts...
If you liberate a colony with "Always War" on, does your colony revolt and go to war on you immediately, or do you get a trading/diplo partner? Or has the colony option been removed?

I tried a couple of Worldbuilder tests and both times the colony I liberated immediately renounced my protection and declared war.

 

[PaulisKhan]

I'm not ashamed to say that after even more test rounds, this GoTM terrifies me.

But I'm going to space or I'll die trying.

 

[Htadus]

I tried a couple of Worldbuilder tests and both times the colony I liberated immediately renounced my protection and declared war.

Thank you DynamicSpirit. I was wondering about that and glad toknow it this way instead of in the game.

 

[Htadus]

Were Izzy or Boudica on different landmasses? What I'm trying to say is that there's a quirk in the AI where the AI will only use transports to move their army to you if there is no land route. On top of that, if the AI cannot get to your empire by land, either blocked by another nation's borders or by impassable terrain like peaks, they won't be able to reach you upon declaring war, and won't have the common sense to sail around the coast instead.

Yes, Izzy shared the same landmass in the GOTM but not Boudica in BOTM1.

In a off topic note, I hope the AI are all of a kind and will chase the same tech path. Off to download the start. Good luck everyone.

 

[Mundungu]

Thanks DS, not sure I will enjoy the game, but it sure looks interesting.

I am still not so good at playing Civ, but maybe a "veteran" can tell me why not try to grab a religion : happiness, extend cultural borders and values ...

In the test game I ended up with a few big cities, and unhappiness was a problem. Of course, in the test game, however the starting position I never managed to grab the early religion (always one turn short on both). To start search for a religion did not seem too detrimental as the neighbours really only started to be a p* in the * after 50 turns or so and then it depends a lot if you have a metal nearby ....
Of course if you try to grab a religion, but miss it, that is noooo goood ...

 

[jesusin]

I am still not so good at playing Civ, but maybe a "veteran" can tell me why not try to grab a religion : happiness, extend cultural borders and values ...

I'm not so good either, but I am for sure a veteran

The problem is not what you get, but what you sacrifice.

Why not grab agriculture instead?: health, additional food for additional growth...

Why not grab BW instead?: chopping trees, copper for better units, slavery...


Every tech is good to have. The players problem is to prioritise their needs.

 

[Lehm]

Hey, I finally managed it to play the test game Jungle III made up. There is something to worry about in my opinion. I sent my initial warrior directly to the west meating WangKong after 4 or 5 turns. I entered his´s borders to look if he has his warrior in the city and yes he had. Bad luck BUT then another warrior showed up in the next turn.

Even I didn´t build another warrior in that time working the hills/plains/forrest tile right from the start! I reloaded several times and by checking the worldbuilder I could see that every AI city got a jump start at the build of the first unit. Wang Kong was working a normal grassland forrest but started with the warrior already built by a half. Surprisingly it was only him who finished that warrior by the time he needed it to defend his city.

So what´s up guys? Is that normal or just some sort of mistake JungleIII could have made when creating the map? Do we have to expect that in our games too?

 

[Mundungu]

Jesusin :

As I read from the other posts that the chance for pillage, even very early is quite consequent, I think not to go for Agriculture, but for military purpose techs asap, probalby BW then beenline horseriding to try to take out as many direct neighbours out as possible early.

From the test game I could see the following : many units = more running costs = less tech. It doesnt matter how many axes you have if you are attacked by cats and macemen or elefants.

So religion for keep the people happy but also for $$ income to keep teching to an acceptable rate.

Anyhow, my plan : grab polytheism (usually second choice for AIs and higher success chances), then BW then beeline Horseriding, while building one or two task forces of warriors to take down if possible one or two enemies, steal some workers, or at least station them on a wood / hill next to enemy capital to keep the AI busy / avoid hiom expend in my direction.

If I can take out one or 2 AI capitals, they should be able to become the "magnets" whil I can populate and develop some task orientd cities in the middle.

Enough talking, time to go playing ...