News: BOTM 13 Pre-game Discussion

[ExplodingFist]

Fog gazing it looks like a coast there to the west. That, and the spot of land off our east coast has me thinking...

A map in the shape of a bunch of small letters saying "Merry Christmas" and we are starting on one of the straight letters?

That is, every civ has a mini-isolated start, each on a small island but with each neighbor in plain sight easily reachable by galleys.

Island hopping FTW? Will prob download tonight and find out, should be fun...

 

[Gosha190]

There is something to worry about in my opinion.

There is NO something to worry about in my opinion. It's simply a prince game and barbarians + events, by the way, is turned OFF!
If we do not have copper or horses you can learn archery. It will be quite enough until you get maces or needed resources, because you will not see large AI stacks till 1000AD+++.

I think it will be very funny game because of always war option. You can do all you want: steal any workers, destroy any improvements. Shortly - there will be no any diplomacy!!! Wonderful! Nice present from the staff! Great thanx!

 

[Simon_c]

OK. here's my plan.
Build some warriors then a worker while teching to BW and then archery.
explore *very* close to home. Once someone else makes first contact, or I have 4 warriors, head that way and hope I get to a capitol before they get archers in there.

 

[strollen]

I almost always go for early religion (90% of the time Hinduism) if I start with Mysticism, even at Emperor I get one 80% of the time.
This is even more true if the leader spiritual. In the case of this game with nobody to trade with the cheap temples, happiness will be a big problem. Plus Gandhi is a spiritual leader getting a great prophet to establish a religious shrine is a no brainer.

I think BW can wait for this game.

 

[Gosha190]

OK. here's my plan.
Build some warriors then a worker while teching to BW and then archery.
explore *very* close to home. Once someone else makes first contact, or I have 4 warriors, head that way and hope I get to a capitol before they get archers in there.

Bad idea to my mind.
1. explore your lands within some first turns while capital builds worker. DS said that we will have some number of turns from the fist when we will safe. That means that there is no close AI!
2. in there is close AI then your plan looks good. If not - then your 1-st production must be worker anyway and warrior is next turn to build.

Research. Farm -> animal or fish (depended on results of reconnaissance and your settling)...

 

[Gosha190]

I almost always go for early religion (90% of the time Hinduism)

our fist religion is Confu usually Let AI found their religions. It helps you later - when you will conquer AI's cities.

I think BW can wait for this game.

it depends on map.

 

[Lehm]

There is NO something to worry about in my opinion. It's simply a prince game and barbarians + events, by the way, is turned OFF!
If we do not have copper or horses you can learn archery. It will be quite enough until you get maces or needed resources, because you will not see large AI stacks till 1000AD+++.

I think it will be very funny game because of always war option. You can do all you want: steal any workers, destroy any improvements. Shortly - there will be no any diplomacy!!! Wonderful! Nice present from the staff! Great thanx!

I hope you are right and I won´t suffer under bad luck.

 

[MacBalt]

Once someone else makes first contact, or I have 4 warriors, head that way and hope I get to a capitol before they get archers in there.

Bad idea to my mind.
1. explore your lands within some first turns while capital builds worker. DS said that we will have some number of turns from the fist when we will safe. That means that there is no close AI!
2. in there is close AI then your plan looks good.

You seem to trust DS a great deal, Gosha!
One question -- Even if there is no AI close and/or its capital is well-defended, I've found that 3 or 4 warriors plundering early improvements and frightening settlers can be an effective way of keeping an AI off my back. Wouldn't even that disruption justify Simon's approach?
Btw Gosha, congrats on your heptathlon award from GOTM 36!

 

[DynamicSpirit]

DS said that we will have some number of turns from the fist when we will safe. That means that there is no close AI!

I don't recall saying anything about this particular map other than what is stated in the very first post. I did post some general advice about always war games, but I thought I made it clear(?) that was intended as general advice, not based on any particular map (to make sure of that, I wrote the advice some time before I started devising this map, and then posted it word-for-word without alteration).

 

[vra379971]

but how are you going to achieve that: for winning you need somebody else to vote for you and that will not happen, since you will not achieve peace at any circumstances...

Oh, I know that well. I have a theory that needs tryin out....

 

[Lehm]

Oh, I know that well. I have a theory that needs tryin out....

you mean, if there is only one opponent left then the own votes are enough? I don´t know if it will work but I guess you will tell us...

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It's just been brought to my attention that by mistake I put an ordinary worker, not as originally stated a fast worker, in the adventurer save, so anyone playing adventurer, you get a free ordinary worker, then any other workers you build will be fast workers.

I'm editing the starting posts to remove the reference to fast worker.

 

[Homunculus]

Assuming I have the time to play this, and the inclination (considering it's above what I'm "comfortable" with playing; plus some 'interesting' game options I'd never even think of using )

I'm certainly taking the adventurer save.. I'm thinking of

worker: SW, SW; the hill will give me some view south
1st Archer: NW (show some tiles now, and then SW next turn for more tiles)
2nd Archer: NE

Depending on 1st turn revelations settler goes probably 2w1s, or 2w.

thoughts?

 

[Lexad]

It will be quite enough until you get maces or needed resources, because you will not see large AI stacks till 1000AD+++.

Based on my Stalin Warlord Always War OTM experience, you might see them much sooner.

You can do all you want: steal any workers, destroy any improvements.

unless AI suffers another acute attack of worker-managing stupidity (which happens to it in 3.17) you won't be able to capture any workers until you get 2-movement unit at least.

 

[Gosha190]

One question -- Even if there is no AI close and/or its capital is well-defended, I've found that 3 or 4 warriors plundering early improvements and frightening settlers can be an effective way of keeping an AI off my back. Wouldn't even that disruption justify Simon's approach?

All player actions depends on map and player's aims. We should pray that we will not have Musa as our' neighbour

Archer is a very strong city defender and at the same time he can attack warrior defended cities with a good chance to win.

You can use warrior rush... but it works good only for plain cities.

Settling.
1. I'll move warrior 1N. If there will nothing interesting...
2. then 1S looks as the best place to settle: fresh water, corn, 3 hills, seaside, jngle gems and maybe someone else to south.

 

[Gosha190]

you won't be able to capture any workers until you get 2-movement unit at least

I see a lot of water! So there is a chance - you can use 1-movement unit and galley AI extremely stupid

 

[Lexad]

Chariots or wood-running warriors should be earlier than galleys

 

[Skurn]

Chariots or wood-running warriors should be earlier than galleys

Not that easy to get woods II warrior without barbs. You can attack AI warriors on flatland, it's 50/50 but you won't get 5 xp from it so you need to be lucky twice. Killing AI scouts will be easier but give less xp, and you have to catch them.
Once you have barracks, you only need to win a fight, that becomes less luck-dependant. Should the barracks be a priority then (providing there are workers and woods)?

 

[Gosha190]

Chariots or wood-running warriors should be earlier than galleys

Why? Research, for example, Farm-Fish-Sailing. Found capital on a seaside. And you will have warrior+galley very soon. There is only one question still: will they have a job or not?

 

[Lexad]

You sacrifice too much that way. I wasn't talking about the possibility, I was talking about availability while staying on you optimal development path.

And if we target the fast 2-mover, woodsman2 warrior will still be much faster - and chariot too, if we have horses nearby. And more useful in the longer run.