[BTS] News: BOTM 261 - England, Immortal - Starts 3 Nov

[DynamicSpirit]

I can talk to myself into settling any of the three. It’s very well designed to create that dilemma.

So many considerations. For example, settling in place might allow a work boat to travel east along the lakes to another city that’s coastal thus saving time. Settling on the marble enculturate, both gold, enabling settlers to settle further from the gold, and still start working them immediately. When consideration that might be important, is where additional cities will be located. Not that we know much about that right now anyway.

Why, thank-you! *blushes*

 

[Smiregal]

Since I m probably Not the only one who is allready eyeballing the Great Lighthouse, eventhough I was the only one mentioning it. I m curious about the thoughts one which position is the Best for getting it. Thats is why the marble settle never even ocurred to me since it is the weakest in this regard. In my head Not settling the hill is still a little superior. It Has a less production threfore it will take longer to Start building it. (One has to build at least a, worker, settler, workboat, Lighthouse and maybe even several warriors for Barbdefence) But getting the the Gold in the BFC will allow much faster teching and thus earlier chopping and in Addition more forrests to chop it.
Even a halfassed sandboxing could give me an answer but since I m on vacation I cant do any.
Thats why Im still up AT 1am reading forum Post on my Phone and Look forward for the vacation to end.
Tanks a lot DynamicSpirit you have outdone yourself.

 

[ariosto]

This start looks interesting, I will certainly try it.

I think I will settle on marble - that start seems SO yummy I just can't resist, really. I can see the advantages of coastal settlement, but I want to use strong capital for an early IMP bonus. GLH is certainly good, but I think it is not that needed given that we are financial. At least, don't want to pass up 3h capital for it. Well, maybe I underestimate how good it is on the island mapscript. So it will be interesting to compare marble vs. coastal approaches.

Also, is it true that marble and 3N of marble city cites are instantly connected?

 

[LowtherCastle]

This start looks interesting, I will certainly try it.

I think I will settle on marble - that start seems SO yummy I just can't resist, really. I can see the advantages of coastal settlement, but I want to use strong capital for an early IMP bonus. GLH is certainly good, but I think it is not that needed given that we are financial. At least, don't want to pass up 3h capital for it. Well, maybe I underestimate how good it is on the island mapscript. So it will be interesting to compare marble vs. coastal approaches.

Also, is it true that marble and 3N of marble city cites are instantly connected?

Good question on the trade route connections. A similar question is, settling one W., does that give me a route to a city that is connected to the Far East lake?

 

[High King J.J.]

Might try this until it becomes hopeless. Mortals don't play immortal without facing mortal consequences.
Will definitely settle 1W, just don't see the point in anything else. Sure, it would be marbleous to settle on marble but a non-coastal capital would unduly frustrate Raggy when his Zekers come calling. I'm guessing Nappy will be there and maybe Bizzy, definitely Izzy, and Cathy or some other red but not close by. Maybe we can drive the Cossacks from Crimea with Redcoats, our thin red line of 'eroes...

About lakes as trade routes, the way I see it the two lakes aren't connected as a trade route. So without any roads or forts the answer to both questions above is No, not connected via two lakes. If you can't sail anything then you can't carry trade either. EDIT: I saw wrong. They are connected like has been proven.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Since I m probably Not the only one who is allready eyeballing the Great Lighthouse, eventhough I was the only one mentioning it. I m curious about the thoughts one which position is the Best for getting it. Thats is why the marble settle never even ocurred to me since it is the weakest in this regard. In my head Not settling the hill is still a little superior. It Has a less production threfore it will take longer to Start building it. (One has to build at least a, worker, settler, workboat, Lighthouse and maybe even several warriors for Barbdefence) But getting the the Gold in the BFC will allow much faster teching and thus earlier chopping and in Addition more forrests to chop it.
Even a halfassed sandboxing could give me an answer but since I m on vacation I cant do any.
Thats why Im still up AT 1am reading forum Post on my Phone and Look forward for the vacation to end.
Tanks a lot DynamicSpirit you have outdone yourself.

On the GLH, assuming the marble tile is not coastal, I see 1W as slightly better than SIP because +beakers > +1hpt, in addition to the chops you mentioned.

There’s also the question of Oracle+GLH. That means even more beakers.

 

[ariosto]

I've just checked this out, and it appears that yes, these cities are connected.

Spoiler screenshots :

@LowtherCastle the answer to your question is also yes

Spoiler screenshot :

 

[High King J.J.]

I've just checked this out, and it appears that yes, these cities are connected.

Spoiler screenshots :

View attachment 676556
View attachment 676555

@LowtherCastle the answer to your question is also yes

Spoiler screenshot :

View attachment 676557

Well I'll be damned. I guess trade routes need only adjacent squares, never mind if there's an actual connection. Thanks for this piece of information.

 

[nocho]

I'm pretty torn still between SIP and 1W, as Smiregal my main concern would be the GLH so marble is out for me as it looks non-coastal. In a quick test, SIP gets the GLH out about 5 turns faster than 1W and technologically is only minimally behind and gets city 2 up sooner, so that city also is bigger at the cut-off point. A drawback is that that city 2 should pick up the gold to keep on par with tech (and happy) so that limits settling options, it might even have to get the corn if no other food around. So longer term the capital will be better 1W and city 2 potentially as well as there's more freedom of where to settle, but of course all depends on the surroundings. Of course the evil mapmaker placed the warrior in such a position that we can barely know anything more about the surroundings before settling. In both cases I got a settler out as soon as hitting size 4 and then continuing on LH/GLH. Also a bit torn on whether to tech mysticism before masonry or not, it'd be for the discount and because we may want it anyway if going for the Oracle. 1W has a bit more leeway for that with the gold. Also worth mentioning that 1W ironically has a higher hammer potential than SIP as it can work an extra hill, also has some unkown tiles in the fog, maybe another hill, but seemingly at least some extra wood to chop, for an Oracle for instance.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

I'm pretty torn still between SIP and 1W, as Smiregal my main concern would be the GLH so marble is out for me as it looks non-coastal. In a quick test, SIP gets the GLH out about 5 turns faster than 1W and technologically is only minimally behind and gets city 2 up sooner, so that city also is bigger at the cut-off point. A drawback is that that city 2 should pick up the gold to keep on par with tech (and happy) so that limits settling options, it might even have to get the corn if no other food around. So longer term the capital will be better 1W and city 2 potentially as well as there's more freedom of where to settle, but of course all depends on the surroundings. Of course the evil mapmaker placed the warrior in such a position that we can barely know anything more about the surroundings before settling. In both cases I got a settler out as soon as hitting size 4 and then continuing on LH/GLH. Also a bit torn on whether to tech mysticism before masonry or not, it'd be for the discount and because we may want it anyway if going for the Oracle. 1W has a bit more leeway for that with the gold. Also worth mentioning that 1W ironically has a higher hammer potential than SIP as it can work an extra hill, also has some unkown tiles in the fog, maybe another hill, but seemingly at least some extra wood to chop, for an Oracle for instance.

We have to gamble to some degree: we know everything about SIP, and most information about 1W, but there are 6 (!) unrevealed BFC tiles if settling on marble.

So to decide if settling on marble if worth it, do we assume about 6 not yet revealed tiles?

1) Average tiles?
2) Worst case scenario not to be if we decided to walk our settler there?
3) Or just gamble on finding another food in marble BFC, 'cause it is GOTM, so if it works, great, and if not, you can always rage-quit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I wonder what your strategies are, if you care to share?

 

[nocho]

We have to gamble to some degree: we know everything about SIP, and most information about 1W, but there are 6 (!) unrevealed BFC tiles if settling on marble.

So to decide if settling on marble if worth it, do we assume about 6 not yet revealed tiles?

1) Average tiles?
2) Worst case scenario not to be if we decided to walk our settler there?
3) Or just gamble on finding another food in marble BFC, 'cause it is GOTM, so if it works, great, and if not, you can always rage-quit ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I wonder what your strategies are, if you care to share?

As it was posed as a settling problem I’m not expecting any extra resources in the fog when settling on marble or 1W. But that doesn’t mean we couldn’t still gamble.

Strategies, you mean generally? Focus on the economy basically. Land the GLH, expand mainly coastally and If possible on some islands. Try Oracle for MC (Colossus) or Currency If possible. And maybe Monarchy soon for growing cities especially if not much happy around. From there, explore and conquer.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

As it was posed as a settling problem I’m not expecting any extra resources in the fog when settling on marble or 1W. But that doesn’t mean we could still gamble.

Strategies, you mean generally? Focus on the economy basically. Land the GLH, expand mainly coastally and If possible on some islands. Try Oracle for MC (Colossus) or Currency If possible. And maybe Monarchy soon for growing cities especially if not much happy around. From there, explore and conquer.

But if we would not be able to contact anybody pre-astro (which is possible), is GLH still that great? I understand you count on settling on the near-by islands?

Part of the dilemma (for me) if to go for marble or 1W is the size of the island - but the evil mapmaker lol put our warrior in such a position that there is no chance to know ...

I was thinking of settling on marble, Oracle'ing Monarchy and just growing big cities ... It is Immortal so trying to get something big from the Oracle seems risky

 

[Powerfaker]

PH vs 1W settle:
Settle 1W means worker 2T later improving the corn, starts 3T later on workboat at a lower production rate. The city will reach size 2 on T21 with 6H invested.
The PH city has the potential to finish the workboat that same turn (....) at size 2, grow to size 4 in 7T after, pump a settler in 5T to settle at the gold/corn . That means after growing on corn the gold is worked from +/- T40 onwards, worst case 15T later than when starting with gold in the capital's BFC. In the meantime it benefits from working more watertiles, earlier trade routes and cruising on a little bit better production.

My conclusion is I will go for PH settle.
Like others I worry about GLH with regard to marble PH settle. SIP will provide a good play, no need to gamble.

On the other hand, the reference to the 'British Empire' in the game announcement was intended to provide subtle clues about your opponents.

- Victoria, empress of India meets Gandhi the liberator ?
- Battle of Isandlwana, Impi > > Redcoats .....

 

[Smiregal]

In my opinon the GL is always worth it even without foreighn trade and Island cities if you can settle at least 6 Costal cities. I think of it as getting double currency at a time when currency is still far ahead. It Makes everything easier and allows more expansion earlier. But if one is able to settle 3 of continent cities and/or gets foreighn traderouts, thats when it really starts to shine. In smaller empires it of course loses some of its punch. Also if getting it means losging out on cityspots and endingen up with only 3 to 4 cities, one should stay away from it.

 

[Smiregal]

Powerfakers path is what I would test first in a sandbox cenario and is exactly what I had in mind when writing my first post. If settling west I would Not even try to build the whole workboat first. Tec agri, bronze. Build worker, start building workboat. Improve corn, and Gold. Mine marble, while growing to size 3 as fast as possible. Even without the Gold for a few turns. Finish settler and workboat with chopps. The nextstepps I m Not sure about.

 

[LowtherCastle]

But if we would not be able to contact anybody pre-astro (which is possible), is GLH still that great? I understand you count on settling on the near-by islands?

Part of the dilemma (for me) if to go for marble or 1W is the size of the island - but the evil mapmaker lol put our warrior in such a position that there is no chance to know ...

I was thinking of settling on marble, Oracle'ing Monarchy and just growing big cities ... It is Immortal so trying to get something big from the Oracle seems risky

Chances are, you’ll have explored the entire island and know how many islands, if any, are available for 2c TRs before you’re ready to start building the GLH.

 

[LowtherCastle]

You guys are talking me into selling on the marble…

 

[Fine_Distinction]

Chances are, you’ll have explored the entire island and know how many islands, if any, are available for 2c TRs before you’re ready to start building the GLH.

Sure, but we discussed chances of landing GLH as a key criterion for where to settle

 

[Smiregal]

Since I m a real Fanboy of the GL, in case you havent noticed yet, I want to post one more argument I havent mentioned yet. Even if one can only get the weaker setup without foreighn or intercontinentaltraderoutes, there is always Astro during the midgame. True it is a long way there, but since on one tends to get Astro early on watermaps there is still a lot of time to get a Payback on your investment. Imagine having 10 cities getting in 4 to 5 gold (often more) per Trade Route after Astro. And now imagine having two more of those in every City. Pretty sweet isnt it. Ok i will stop now. I promise.

 

[Fine_Distinction]

@DynamicSpirit Spoilers?