News: COTM37 Pre-Game Discussion

[Othniel]

That would make for a very small empire during your golden age if your Enkidu wins a battle. Ouch.

But you can't compare it in absolute numbers. Relatively, the increase in production and commerce is the same as for a later GA.

I'm not 100% sure I'm understanding you here so please correct me if I'm not...

My point was simply that starting an ultra-early GA means you would only have a couple of cities--at least initially--benefit from the GA increase. Certainly the per-city bonus will be the same for an earlier or later GA, the despotism penalty (and terrain improvements, etc.) notwithstanding.

I think everyone will have a widely varied opinion on the optimum moment to start a GA. The later the golden age, usually the more cities one has that can benefit, plus you might be in a more efficient government to capture more of the bonus. However, it might be more beneficial overall to have an earlier GA and translate the bonus commerce and production into a larger empire more quickly. This earlier, larger empire, using the principle of exponential growth, might outweigh the raw benefits of delaying the GA until a later date.

For this game, my thoughts are that I will want an early GA but only once I've got a reasonable number of cities to benefit (6-8, perhaps?). I don't think it will be tough to avoid a premature GA; the Emperor AI isn't usually scary...

I just hope to hit that hypothetical optimum point on the hypothetical growth curve that will be boosted by my not-hypothetical GA...

Thoughts anyone?

 

[killerkid]

I am in the middle of a test game. Since I made a random map, it was mainly for the opening military strategy (Not use of lake and bad land around it)

What I did was make 2 cities, and a few turns later, my neighbor, the Ottomans, had founded a city 5 tiles away from city no. 2. I knew I had to attack, or lose a lot of land. I already had 1 arch, and one enkidu, so each city produced 1 arch. I sent my small attack force to the Ottoman city, Edrine. The first archer beat a spear taking no casualties. The next archer knocks of 2 hp, but dies on an unfortified spear. The spear promoted to vet, giving it 2hp. My last archer killed it. Wahlah! Edrine was mine! The Enkidu went to reinforce the city

This gave me more room to expand, and one more city. Plus, it hindered the Ottomans growth and tech pace. Now I have 10 cities, and that is probably all I will found.

Because of this quick offensive, I am in great shape to conquer my continent, and win a space victory. Had I not done this, and I probably would have 6 cities, and be caving in to AI demands.

By the way, Othiniel, for my game that I am doing, my GA will be in the second war. (First major war) It will be perfect for units in the first 10 turns, and libraries and markets in the last 10. This would be an early GA, but not ultra-early.

I hope this long post helps anyone.

 

[Worobjoff_]

I tried to create such a map and found that time enough to reach republic without war.
But organizers of COTMs like to joke. May by much marsh around or very few rivers.

 

[civ_steve]

First post updated with Predator penalties and Conquest bonuses.

Please note: slight error with climate and temperature inputs. The map is Normal Climate and Warm Temperature (not Wet and Normal)

 

[I. Larkin]

I'm not 100% sure I'm understanding you here so please correct me if I'm not...

My point was simply that starting an ultra-early GA means you would only have a couple of cities--at least initially--benefit from the GA increase. Certainly the per-city bonus will be the same for an earlier or later GA, the despotism penalty (and terrain improvements, etc.) notwithstanding.

I think everyone will have a widely varied opinion on the optimum moment to start a GA. The later the golden age, usually the more cities one has that can benefit, plus you might be in a more efficient government to capture more of the bonus. However, it might be more beneficial overall to have an earlier GA and translate the bonus commerce and production into a larger empire more quickly. This earlier, larger empire, using the principle of exponential growth, might outweigh the raw benefits of delaying the GA until a later date.

For this game, my thoughts are that I will want an early GA but only once I've got a reasonable number of cities to benefit (6-8, perhaps?). I don't think it will be tough to avoid a premature GA; the Emperor AI isn't usually scary...

I just hope to hit that hypothetical optimum point on the hypothetical growth curve that will be boosted by my not-hypothetical GA...

Thoughts anyone?

In very rough approximation (if growth exponetial with the same factor and GA also have factor independent of "time") it is the same benefit of GA in total: (if it is not very close to the end game).
Effectively it is just time "renormalisation".
However GA not good at REx phase. Also Rep or Monarchy have more possibilities for "investment."

 

[Andronicus]

No food bonus, no commerce bonus, low shields ... I think I'll take a walk
Perhaps find somewhere more central?

 

[Othniel]

There's got to be some good tiles nearby once we pop the fog, right?

Probably going for predator, that means no access to research IW for early swords. I'm thinking about doing max on WC and grab some early archers for some Pottery probably doesn't have enough trade value to get WC and I want some attack value quick...

I'm excited to start this one up tonight. It's been a while since I played a COTM

 

[Fredmichael]

I have never done a COTM but this sounds really fun. You guys gave great tips and insight into this one. I can tell I am going to learn a lot of useful information by doing this. Thanks everyone and look forward to the spoiler.

 

[ahman]

In very rough approximation (if growth exponetial with the same factor and GA also have factor independent of "time") it is the same benefit of GA in total: (if it is not very close to the end game).
Effectively it is just time "renormalisation".

An example of comparing the results of early vs late GA after 100 turns, 10% of income can be used for raw (successful) expansion without GA, 55% with GA:

1.55^20 * 1.10^80 (early GA) = 1.10^80 * 1.55^20 (late GA).

However GA not good at REx phase.

Because food is more important and shields and gold less important in expansion phase, than later?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=5423006&postcount=11

 

[Abegweit]

Because food is more important and shields and gold less important in expansion phase, than later?

It is a bad idea to train settlers and workers during a GA since you don't get a bonus for food. Yet this is exactly what you want to do during a REX.