News: GOTM 32 pre-game discussion

[ainwood]

GOTM 32: Rome

[img=right]http://gotm.civfanatics.net/civ4games/images/gotm32civ.jpg[/img]

Yep, we've got to deity. We last played deity in february 2007, when we had only one solitary winner. In that game, even the 'contender' players were given a starting bonus. Well, apparently some people want a true challenge, so this time you've got it.

Game Details:

Game settings:
Civilization: Rome (Leader: Julius Caesar; Traits: expansive, organised)
Rivals: 6 AIs
Difficulty: Deity
Map: Pangea
Mapsize: Standard
Climate: Rocky
Sea Level: High
Starting Era: Ancient
Speed: Epic
Options: No barbarians
Victory Conditions: all enabled

Julius Caesar:
Julius Caesar is expansive and organised; starting with fishing and mining. Expansive gives +3 health per city, and double speed production of granaries and harbours. Organised allows -50% civic upkeep, as well as double production speed of lighthouses and courthouses.

Unique unit: Praetorian (replaces swordsman)
Compared to the swordsman, the praetorian, is stronger, having base strength of 8 compared with 6 for the standard swordsman. It costs slightly more, at 67 hammers vs 60 for the standard swordsman, and does not share the swordsman's 10% bonus for attacking cities.

Starting screenshot
This is the start of the game (click for a bigger image):


Adventurer Class bonuses:

1. Archers. For additional defence, you start with two archers. One replacing the warrior, and an additional one starting on the plot with the settler.
2. Worker. You have a worker (sharing a tile with the settler)
3. Hunting. Lets pretend you found it in a hut.
4. Archery. You can't have archers without archery. Well, you can, but we're playing pretend today.

Challenger Class bonuses:

1. None.

Challenger Class Equalisers:

1. no Warrior. He's gone.
2. No fishing. That's gone, too.

To Enter the Competition:

This competition will open on 1 July 2008. From that date, you'll be able to get the starting saves here. Use the same URL to submit your completed entry, which you must do by 1 August 2008.

Civ version

Windows: This game MUST be played in Civilization 4 (NOT Warlords or BTS), patched to version 1.74, and with the HOF mod version 1.74.002 installed. You can download the HOF mod here. Players using windows vista are encouraged to read the notes on Vista fixes here

Macintosh: This game MUST be played in Civilization 4 (NOT Warlords), patched to version 1.74, and with the Mac HOF mod version 1.74.002 installed. You can download the HOF mod here.

While playing...

Remember - for your entry to be accepted, it MUST be your first attempt to play this game, and you MUST NOT replay any turns. If you make a mistake while playing, you have to live with it, learn from it, and carry on the game without replaying.

We will open 'spoiler' threads during the month for players to discuss what happens in their games. Do not discuss any details of your game outside those threads. Please use this Saves Available thread for any technical queries, eg. if you have trouble opening the game, NOT for discussions about what happens in your game.

Finally: For those of you who have never beaten deity, you are welcome to attempt the 'adventurer' class, even if you have finished in the top-half of GOTM competitions in the past. Note however, that the adventurer entry attracts a 15% penalty on score, and is not eligable to win medals.

 

[Lexad]

Deity Roman again?! You've got to be kidding me!

At least the start looks much more pleasant - gold without jungle, lots of wood. WOTM18 would be a good training ground.

 

[Bugg123]

Uh-oh .. Deity.. I guess the goal is to survive the 500AD cut-off

Fair starting position, though.

Having never played a Deity game before, the adventurer bonus seems tempting. Getting to mine and camp stuff and build FB while researching agri+wheel.. sure, why not... The archers.. with no barbs .. I dunno.. I guess the neighbourhood must be particularly unfriendly

I guess I could attach a quick worldbuild for this one as well.. Test1 is contender, Test2 is Adventurer.

I still suck at worldbuilding, I guess.. but it still is better than nothing... I hope

Need HOF mod to play.. etc

 

[Vynd]

Settle in place, research directly to Iron Working, beat up on an AI or 2 with Praetorians before they get metal. Will I pull this off? I'm lousy at early warfare, so probably not. But to me it's the obvious course to take.

So let's start guessing where the Iron is, aka "how nice was ainwood?" I think ainwood is a good person, and thus put some Iron in one of the two grasslands we can see already. Any votes for "ainwood is a bad person and put the Iron way over there?"

 

[kcd_swede]

Settle in place, research directly to Iron Working, beat up on an AI or 2 with Praetorians before they get metal. Will I pull this off? I'm lousy at early warfare, so probably not. But to me it's the obvious course to take.

Yes. That's the theory. Somehwere between theory and practise things have a way of going all wrong, though. But I'm thinking along the same lines. That should give you pause to reconsider.

If I succeed taking down one AI I will surpass my expectations. If I want to drag the game out, I would forego the early war and just keep my relations good and my defenses an adequate deterrent. I am sure I could get to at least 1000AD this way. But on Epic speed, I'm thinking that might be tedious. Why prolong the agony of defeat?

I think ainwood is a good person, and thus put some Iron in one of the two grasslands we can see already.

I think he gives us everything we need nearby. If everyone gets slaughtered there isn't much competition. Also note, ROCKY usually means ample metals -- and that's a bad thing if you are hoping to beat down AI's before they have metal.
High water mark means crowding, and not a lot of green land. Maybe REX is wiser than an early rush.

I guess I need to try some test games for once. They should be so quick I can play about 20 of them before the start date.

@ainwood: Is there a rule that all XOTM's must start in ancient era, or is that just the popular preference?

 

[Lexad]

Pangea - we meet all AI before Alhpa hopefully - therefore go straight to Alpha, trade it for IW and (hopefully) Maths.

 

[ainwood]

Deity Roman again?! You've got to be kidding me!

Well, different leader.....

I figured as they're different competitions, its not ideal, but its OK.

@ainwood: Is there a rule that all XOTM's must start in ancient era, or is that just the popular preference?

Fairly-much the preference.

 

[JerichoHill]

With knowing Fishing and Mining, at least the first moves seem easy enough.

Here's what I'm thinking
1) Settle in Place
2) Build Workboat
3) Build Worker
4) Worked Fishes = can work gold mine
5) Then Rex/Alpha

Key would be if its possible to cordon off a penisular of land, that would be helpful!

 

[Jimmy Thunder]

No barbs, Praetorians, pangea, decent starting spot... definitely a "friendly" deity game.

Looks very fun, I'd expect some people to get impressive results.

I'll be trying to put together the most effective praetorian rush I can manage.

 

[Ronnie1]

My first goal is to make it longer than the 13 minutes I played WOTM 18! The lesson I learned there is to make sure more than 1 defender is in your only city! Only there are no barbs this time, so maybe I can get away with completely undefended.

Rocky usually equals strategic choke points. Pangea will mean plenty of early land even with the high water level. Beeline Alpha and hope to be able to trade Writing around in round 1 of trading. Then package Alpha with some of the techs gained in round 1 for round 2.

Expand as fast as the economy will allow after the trading, by peace or by force depending on distance and opportunity.

All that being said, I've only won 2 or 3 games at Immortal, and I've NEVER WON a game on deity! So it may just be a pipe dream with a pit of slop at the bottom of the pipe!

 

[Htadus]

Damn you who ever asked for non nerfed Diety game. Damn you Just kidding. This can be my perfect excuse for getting killed in the mid game.

Thank you for making it an Epic...that way I can move over to the plains hill for the extra shield and earlier worker. Worker, WB, Warrior and (settler & worker)X 2.

Did some one say construction after Alpha. I too hope to get Math for Alpha. After construction going for HBR. Then decide what to do.

Ok back to the GOTM 31.

 

[jesusin]

Yoohoooo, Deity I hope this time I will really play.


Hmmm, high water level, Epic speed... someone doesn't want me to play for culture. At least not peaceful cultural victory.

Appart from Prats, I am considering beelining to Construction and fighting with WE+Cats. Or would that be too late?

Maybe there will be only a couple of crazy leaders, all the rest peaceful, and I can go back to culture after killing those 2...

 

[Lexad]

Appart from Prats, I am considering beelining to Construction and fighting with WE+Cats. Or would that be too late?

No, you'll have plenty of warring to do. They'll come in handy.

Rocky is bad as more AI cities will be on hills, despite Vanilla AI has no affinity with hills like Warlords AI. It's hard to kill archers on hills with Praets.

 

[Fatius]

Never tried diety before... I wonder if by rushing prats non stop (by massive whipping and chopping) and almost stopping research after IW, it is possible to wipe out all civs (with no units better then prats and while razing most conquered cities). I think I should try this out on an other map beforehand though...

 

[Lexad]

Unlikely. Most advanced AI will have longbows soon after.

 

[Fatius]

I guess I'll try to go for space race after killing off one or two civs then (that is, if they don't kill me first ). The problem is that I fear switching to tech race after an early ruch in deity - its going to be damn hard to catch up with AIs.

 

[srad]

Assumption: There is iron in the FC.
What do you think: Is it always better to beeline alpha in this scenario or may it be better to go for IW and rush and try to kill one or two AIs?


Worker or Workboat first?

 

[Yamps]

Assumption: There is iron in the FC.
What do you think: Is it always better to beeline alpha in this scenario or may it be better to go for IW and rush and try to kill one or two AIs?


Worker or Workboat first?

Moderator Action: Comments about a current game deleted
You really should know better by now!

I didn't calculate things, but Worker first should be better, it takes too much time for the Work boat to finish. I won't start on the boat before the mine and farm for sure.

Early chariot rush could be useful if there are some Horses nearby.

How many cities before the war do you people think to build? I'm hoping for three including Rome, maybe just 2. I'll also try to grab resources without obelisks. Sadly JC isn't Creative, that's an awesome trait!

Going for Culture after some wars is probably the best way. Or Domination of course!

 

[Yamps]

Yes, sorry about that!

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I've never done a Civ IV GOTM.

I've never played Civ IV above Monarch.

So I'll be playing adventurer

I dunno - BW or Agri? It's 15 turns to the workboat, so if that's about the same as agri, obviously BW is the right thing.

btw - I think the starting spot shows 2 hammers, so even if you work the crab, I THINK you'll get the workboat in 15 turns, maybe fewer, and you are continuing to grow. I think it makes sense to go for the boat... but then, I'm going adventurer, so I'll have a couple of archers around to defend myself from what I assume are large patrols of wandering AI warriors, soon to be AI archers...