News: GOTM 32 pre-game discussion
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
scsabres2011
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2008
- Messages
- 30
Oh boy, not the best time to enter my first GOTM. I'm only about a Prince-level player but it'll be fun to see if I can survive past the first spoiler.
Like most people have said, I'll probably settle in place, go straight for Alphabet, and hope nobody wises up to my weakness too early.
Like most people have said, I'll probably settle in place, go straight for Alphabet, and hope nobody wises up to my weakness too early.
JackOfClubs
Warlord
You don't want to settle on the hill to the E because that has a gold resource on it which will vastly increase your early game economy. Unless you are talking about the forested plain hill 2E of the settler which doesn't seem like a superior spot. You would be trading the elephants in the fat cross for silk further down the road and would be including that desert hill in exchange for 1 hammer in the capital. I guess that could come in handy, but not worth wasting a turn IMHO.
Ronnie1
Deity
What do the experts think of trying to worker steal at this level? It seems suicidal to me, but it slows down the AI, and if you get away with it, you're obviously in better shape. I didn't ask for WOTM18, tried it, and lost my stealing warrior and the worker. But in the vanilla game, at least the worker can run for cover the same turn he is captured. Is it doable????
An extra hammer in the capital means an earlier worker, which means more accumulated turns of working improved tiles for the entire game. It also means extra growth, as you are stagnant fewer turns in the beginning while producing said worker. The turn "lost" by moving is regained by the time you have produced this worker.
It also provides for a more production oriented capital.
I'll happily (hopefully?) collect the ivory with a future city.
It also provides for a more production oriented capital.
I'll happily (hopefully?) collect the ivory with a future city.
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,756
To me it depends on a few things. If you're planning to DoW someone and capture a city or two soon, then you might not want to steal his worker till your stack is ready, so he doesn't send a bunch of units that distract you from capturing the cities.
If you capturing a worker far away from your capital and your city is well enough defended you could try to capture and run, especially with no barbs.
Personally, I generally won't steal a worker till I have copper or horses almost connected.
LowtherCastle
Deity
- Joined
- May 18, 2005
- Messages
- 23,756
I agree that settling on the gold is rarely the right move.
Settling on the forested plains/hill however is anything but wasting a turn. It just depends on what you want (and also on the luck of where resources appear). The hill site provides more hammers in the long run.
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Most of this set-up looks pretty nice, but is there no fresh water in that screenshot? Isn't health going to be something of an early obstacle, even with the corn and clams?
How large do you plan to grow!
Julius Caesar is expansive and organised; starting with fishing and mining. Expansive gives +3 health per city, and double speed production of granaries and harbours.
So, what are the choice? Going for IW and hope for nearby juicy AI cities? The lack of barbarians removes the opportunity to capture barb cities, so it would be possible/suitable to settle another two cities (for production) before unleashing the prets. IW is perfectly reasonable to get from Alpha, but it may not be available until ~1200 BC, which may be a bit late for an early rush. OTOH, the target cities may have been cottaged at that time
Gold and Ivory together with Expansive enables ~pop6, which gives plenty of production if Rome is settled on the forest hills 2E. I'm also inclined to settle second city on the ivory for the extra production (2
in city tile), depending on possible Iron in vicinity.The real question is if a domination/conquest would require continued research? I would presume (without playing a test game first
) that it will not be possible to win with only IW. Does anyone anyone have any experience in winning with prets only on Pangea-Standard-Epic-Deity?
MacBalt
Learnéd Fool
Doh! I really ought to learn to think before I post.How large do you plan to grow!
Thanks!
JackOfClubs
Warlord
Other things being equal, I would totally agree. Getting an early worker and extra early production is a definite plus not to be ignored. But my point is that things are not equal; the terrain to the E is not as good as the starting location. You trade 8 forests for 5 (maybe 6 if there is one in the fog to the SE, but that looks like desert to me). That translates into 90 extra hammers which would pretty much offset the advantage of getting the early settler in the short term.
Mid-term you are sacrificing the Ivory for Silk, which is more than just an early vs. late resource tradeoff. The ivory also adds production: with a camp that plains ivory tile will yield 1F3H1C which is like a grassland hill with a mine. That offsets one of the 2 extra hills the eastern position will add plus a little extra commerce and happiness (neither of which should be sneezed at on Deity level).
And don't be too sure that you can get that Ivory in a later city. Bear in mind that on Deity level, the AI starts with 2 settlers which means they have 12 cities to your 1. On a pangaea map, that can easily translate into a de facto One City Challenge for the early game. It happened to me in about 4 out of the 6 practice games I tried.
Long term, you are trading workable tiles for 1 desert hill and 2 extra unimprovable coastal tiles. Plus you have that hidden tile 1S2E that I already mentioned which looks to me like desert or at least plains.
Mind you, I don't think the position 2E of the start would be a disaster. If we started with a Scout instead of a Warrior, I would move him to the desert hill to see if there were anything there to improve the prospects. As it is, however, I don't see any great advantage to wasting the extra turn. I think I would rather settle in place and try to redeem the desert hill with my first settler, if nothing better presents itself.
That is to say, you haven't tested your WOTM18 map?
Munro
Deity
Settling on the plains hill (2E of the settler) looks best to me, and build worker > workboat. The extra city hammer from the PH gives the worker (and therefore gold) 4 turns earlier, WB 8 turns earlier, 1st settler 8 turns earlier, alpha 5 turns earlier. Clearly faster than settling in place. It also leaves the ivory site open for a 2nd city - all those forests will chop nicely. 
Other decisions I'm not sure on yet:
1. techs: beeline for alpha via wheel > pottery or hunting > Animal Husbandry?
Well - I'll just see how things are looking at that point!
Here are the notes from my starting position tests in case anyone's interested.
settle on plains hill:
settle in place:
Other decisions I'm not sure on yet:
1. techs: beeline for alpha via wheel > pottery or hunting > Animal Husbandry?
- wheel > pottery allows us to keep the worker busy building roads (and allows the ivory site to be settled 1 turn earlier, assuming we settle 1NE of the ivory to share clams / gold with Rome)
- hunting > AH could be stronger though if there are cows, horses, sheep or deer nearby
- both paths have same
cost
- after 2nd settler, unsure whether to go build 2xbarracks, or start on a 3rd settler (for settling iron site when revealed by alpha / trade for IW).
- If iron is already nearby, 3rd settler probably unnecessary. It's a crowded map so likely there'll be no decent sites left.
- But if we don't already have iron in our cultural borders, we'll want a 3rd settler to go and grab it (if possible).
Well - I'll just see how things are looking at that point!
Here are the notes from my starting position tests in case anyone's interested.
settle on plains hill:
Spoiler :
settle in place:
Spoiler :
Similar threads
