News: GOTM61 Pre-Game Discussion

[civ_steve]

GOTM 61 - Iroquois

It's been a while since the GOTM players have tried their hand as Hiawatha. This month he makes a return! Be a shame if you aggressive types couldn't run with your Mounted Warriors , so you get a Pangaea map as well. Actually, a large Pangaea map (40% of the map is land), so I've added 2 AI civs to fill it up a bit for you, and set the climate to 'arid'. At 5 billion years old, there wont be too many mountain ranges in your way. The barbs are upped to Restless but the AI is kept at Monarch level. All you need are some Horses and you're on your way! I promise there's at least one Horse source somewhere ...


Civilization: Iroquois
Rivals: 9 pre-selected.
Barbarians: Restless
Difficulty: Monarch
Land Form: Pangaea, 60% ocean, standard map.
Geology: 5 billion years old, Arid, Temperate

Conquest-Class Bonuses:
TBD.


Predator-Class Equalisers:
TBD.

(Special Note: Just a reminder - PTW only.)

 

[Paul#42]

Scout will go S and probably W.
Worker most likely chop (if no other food bonus is revealed). We need the food bonus quickly.
Settler most likely SW.
Research TW - we need those MW soon. Maybe we do not leave the ancient times...

Predator? Depends on the handycap. I won't do without my barb bonus.

 

[Redbad]

hmm Paul says scout S-W. I think I'll scout N-E and worker W. If there's any extra food bonus near it should be visible.
Then if no new info says otherwise I'll probably settle north.

Monarch/pangaea is good for almost any VC, because you can expand fast. No real reason to go domination. The competition can domonate fast too, so it will only cause inflation in the domination dates.

Maybe a non-military VC for not having to conquer a lot of land and a lot of opponents.

 

[ionimplant]

i'll probably also settle north. i'll send the scout to the mountain nw and w though.

wondering where the horse is. 50 tiles within the starting position?

 

[Chamnix]

For such an innocent looking start, nobody has agreed on a first move yet , but I am pretty close to agreeing with Paul#42.

With the coast N-NW and 3NW and based on the minimap, it looks like we may already be at the northern edge on the landmass, so I don't want to send the scout north. It depends on what he sees after going south, but I'm thinking either S-S or S-E to head toward the center of the world.

I will probably settle SW. Assuming that is the northern edge of the landmass to our north, I want closer to a full ring around my capital - I don't see any real advantage to putting the capital on the coast.

 

[PaperBeetle]

Heresy perhaps, but is it really worth irrigating the deer if there are no other food bonuses around? It takes 17 worker turns to chop/water/road, to get a 3.1.2 tile, compared to just 6 worker turns to do only a road for 2.2.2 (or no worker turns for 2.2.1). I'm always frustrated by +3fpt in core towns... but maybe it works well as an eight-turn combo factory. I know: it's a 50/50 share with another town isn't it? Settler before granary in that case.

Re the horse. Under someone else's capital I suppose. Who has an ancient horsey UU? Only Egypt I think (Hittites came in C3C).

 

[denyd]

Actually the only horses will be on 3 x 3 islands with 8 mountain tiles and horses in the center.

I'm thinking scout S-S, worker W to the BG to mine/road then if nothing nice appears, settler N. Who knows that might be a lake. Since we start with a pottery & CB, I'll probably research The Wheel to find out where the horses are, then head for Monarchy (a good war government). As for long term goals, I'm waffling between diplomatic & a more violent option (domination)

 

[DBear]

What are the Iroquois' attributes in PTW?

 

[azzaman333]

What are the Iroquois' attributes in PTW?

Expansionist and Religious.

 

[archphoenix]

use Conquest-Class Bonuses to guess style.
free tech write:
the only horse locate on an island oversea.(need MM).
free 2 spear:
we surrounded by Rome, Greece, and Carthage
free setter:
no AI nearby, more than 20 tiles away.

 

[Paul#42]

With that diverting starting plans, a Predator QSC Challenge might bear some fun. Anyone with me?
(could easily be combined with any other Predator Challenge)

Maybe we can keep notes to the minimum
Writing down every move of every single of our 14 workers might be exhausting by 1100 BC...
Maybe most detailed till we get the fifth unit?

It takes 17 worker turns to chop/water/road, to get a 3.1.2 tile, compared to just 6 worker turns to do only a road for 2.2.2 (or no worker turns for 2.2.1). I'm always frustrated by +3fpt in core towns...

You are right, this might be subject to further investigation...

 

[Più Freddo]

Predator QSC Challenge

A Challenge Challenge?

To take part in the QSC, all you have to do is to follow the rules and submit the results.

Writing down every move of every single of our 14 workers might be exhausting by 1100 BC

The QSC is almost always very exhausting after 1200 BC.

 

[Paul#42]

A Challenge Challenge?

Yep. Quasi a meta-challenge.
In fact it was hardly a real challenge the last few times (because or that's why I did not take part).

I just wanted to raise (my own) attention in this slowly starving competition. I know some few of you still attend it.

 

[socralynnek]

Don't know where I'll settle, depends on what the scout sees.
+3fpt is not optimal but better than +2fpt, especially if there is no food bonus a few tiles away for a second city.

Which victory I'll go for depends on whether we'll have horses or not.

 

[PaperBeetle]

I always predator, and I always QSC, so count me in.
Re: logging. I keep recording full unit moves and town builds throughout the QSC, but I stop recording tile micro after the settler pump has acheived stability.

I wonder if the QSC lost its way because there is no award for getting #1? Of course I just say that because it's the only 'competition' I sometimes win. Really, I appreciate the party line that the QSC has no award because the staff don't want to encourage people to distort their overall game just for the sake of 1000bc.
Back when I was a GOTM neophyte , I was checking the logs of some top players, and caught someone (either Darkness or Dynamic iirc) who had submitted "lorem ipsum" appended to a short rant about why logs should no longer be compulsory (i.e. no one reads them any more, but requiring them encourages people not to submit QSC becasue no one but me likes to write them).

 

[Più Freddo]

short rant about why logs should no longer be compulsory (i.e. no one reads them any more, but requiring them encourages people not to submit QSC becasue no one but me likes to write them).

On the other hand, at least for less experienced players, writing a log in itself improves the performance.

As I said, the logging doesn't really become painful until 1200 BC.

 

[Chamnix]

Heresy perhaps, but is it really worth irrigating the deer if there are no other food bonuses around? It takes 17 worker turns to chop/water/road, to get a 3.1.2 tile, compared to just 6 worker turns to do only a road for 2.2.2 (or no worker turns for 2.2.1).

Heresy indeed. In the early game, a 3/1/x tile is dramatically better than a 2/2/x tile (if there are no other available food bonuses). Consider if that were a plains wheat instead – would you even consider mining it instead of irrigating it?

I also wouldn’t worry about the “lost” worker turns. Think about where you will be around turn 20-25 assuming you don’t chop, there are no other food bonuses, and you build a settler before a granary. Your capital will have grown to size 3 in 20 turns, and popped out a settler to knock it back down to size 1 and take another 10 turns to reach size 2. Your second town will take 10 turns to reach size 2. In the meantime, you have the game forest tile to work, and your worker has fully improved 2 other tiles – unfortunately, you don’t have the citizens to work all of them, so the saved worker turns didn’t really do you much good.

Of course, eventually you will grow into those already improved tiles, but I’m guessing before you reach that point you will be wishing you had more food instead of unworked improved tiles.

Re: QSC – I used to submit them all the time. The reason I stopped was that for a month or two, I started games late and missed the QSC deadline, and then I never went back. They do take a decent amount of time, and it is not all “good” time – it doesn’t necessarily make me think more, but it does make me rename more units, Alt + Tab more, and spend more time typing. IIRC, the QSC scores are also not really a very good indicator of final score in any case.

But, if there is a concerted effort to get a lot of QSC entries this month, then I will jump in.

 

[PaperBeetle]

I'd only do the settler before granary if I were irrigating the deer. One of the reasons to leave the forest up would be to get the granary faster; the worker would get the second tile up to speed in time for the second citizen. Then maybe the forest can come down in time to be shared with the second town... so many possibilities with such meagre resources. Time to get the spreadsheet out I guess.

it doesn’t necessarily make me think more, but it does make me rename more units

Right! I end up with all these numbered units. After the QSC they start to annoy me when they are in stack with un-renamed units, so I have re-rename them to cut the numbers off again. So then they look alright until I upgrade them, and halfway through a campaign I've got a stack of medieval infantry, and one is called "Swordsman" so I start to send it back for upgrading, but its not really a sword, it's just called that, and so on and so on, and oooh what a mess it gets...

 

[denyd]

PaperBeetle: I've taken to naming my units - I've got a list for warriors, archers, spearmen & horsemen. Warriors are guys like Thor, Conan, Odin & Zeus, while the Archers are Orion, Robin, Hood, Tell, etc. The workers also get names (female of course) in alphbetical order and 3 letters in length: Ann, Bee, Cat, Dee, Eve....

Once I collect a trio of workers together to work (Ann, Bee & Cat), I refer to them as ABC.

As for what to do in this one, I agree that the deer is probably our only food bonus locally and that food is the key to growth in the early game. My conumdrum is research. I'm pretty sure The Wheel, then Horseback Riding. After that I'm not sure, probably Mysticism, Polytheism & Monarchy, to allow my Mounted Warriors to kick off my GA after I've escaped from despotism.

 

[civ_steve]

Let's see if this helps your planning any:

Conquest Class benefits -

You get bonus Technology of Warrior Code (sorry, no MT! )
You get 2 free Scouts (start with 3 - hey, its Pangaea!)
You get +50 Gold in treasury

Predator Class 'equalizers' -

AI start with an extra Settler and 2 Defensive Units
AI Unit Support increased to Emperor
You have no Knowledge of Ceremonial Burial (argh, you DO have Pottery!)