no chop game type

[slothman]

Everyone likes chop-rushing, especially for settlers and workers.
Has anybody tried a game where you can't chop?
It seems like many of the higher levels require chopping.
That could be one reason why I am only at warlord, or peacelord in my case.
It would be really hard if the enemy could but you couldn't.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Slight probelm there - lots of tile imporvements require the forest/jungle to be cleared. You'd end up spending ages roading tiles to stop trees from growing on them and not being able to use half your resources (bananas, sugar, etc). I suspect you meant not chopping simply in order to hurry a unit - why not just try it out? All you have to do is not press the button

 

[ZiP!]

Why not enabling chopping as it is, but editing the XML so that it simply gives you no hammers ? (forests and jungles alike)

(Edit : typo)

 

[Abaddon]

that would be a cool variant ZiP!

 

[alexti2]

Has anybody tried a game where you can't chop?
It seems like many of the higher levels require chopping.

Sometimes you have to do it just because you start in forest-free area. Even when you can chop, it is often makes much smaller difference than one can think. With exponential growth curbed in Civ4, it becomes much more important how you can make your cities profitable rather than ability to plant as many of them as soon as possible. I think that the principal benefit of chopping is to be able to get some critical wonder (Pyramids, Great Lighthouse) before the AI.

 

[ohioastronomy]

If you don't like chopping trees - try the game on quick speed. The timber yield is small (20 hammers) and city growth is fast. At other speeds you're sacrificing a lot of production by leaving them alone.

 

[ohioastronomy]

Sometimes you have to do it just because you start in forest-free area. Even when you can chop, it is often makes much smaller difference than one can think. With exponential growth curbed in Civ4, it becomes much more important how you can make your cities profitable rather than ability to plant as many of them as soon as possible. I think that the principal benefit of chopping is to be able to get some critical wonder (Pyramids, Great Lighthouse) before the AI.

I started a thread on this in the strategy articles section. At normal speed and longer there is a very significant difference between using 3-4 trees for the first worker and settler compared to not doing so. There is a big difference between cutting every stick of wood and a few trees, but cutting none really does slow down your start. Try a controlled test to see it...run to 2000 BC. In one case have your city make worker-worker-settler and use the workers to chop trees until all three are made. In another case avoid cutting all trees. You'll be surprised how different your empire looks.

 

[alexti2]

Try a controlled test to see it...run to 2000 BC. In one case have your city make worker-worker-settler and use the workers to chop trees until all three are made. In another case avoid cutting all trees. You'll be surprised how different your empire looks.

Yeah, it wouldn't exit in most cases after such beginning. How do you expect your workers and settlers to survive in a hostile environment? Animals and a bit later barbarians are quite an annoyance if you don't have enough warriors. You also need to consider the hit you're taking by researching mining and bw before more appropriate land improvement techs. Another point is that you're wasting your trees right now, when you don't have good use for a settler/second worker, rather than saving them for later, when you could rush something that would be useful right away. You can look though strategic forum and check "difficult start" threads (emperor+ level). You may be surprised how much worse auto-choppers do.

 

[ohioastronomy]

Alexti2: This depends on the difficulty level. Yes, at high levels the barbarians are annoying and tech slowdown is a factor (especially at long speeds). However, your initial statements did not have those qualifiers. I have no problem with maximizing production - and using three trees to do it - at monarch and below. Are you contending that the ability to release stored production is useless? If you can place a settler earlier you reap long term rewards.

This isn't just a production question. If military units are key, having the ability to chop a couple out is pretty useful. If barbarians are a problem, knowing where the copper mines are is very useful.

 

[slothman]

Yea chopping is good so how hard is it if you don't at all.
Then you couldn't just chop a few workers or warriors and protect yourself easily.
You have to be more careful.

 

[Dupson]

No extra hammers from cuting the forest down will do it . You dont have to go that far

 

[alexti2]

Alexti2: This depends on the difficulty level. Yes, at high levels the barbarians are annoying and tech slowdown is a factor (especially at long speeds). However, your initial statements did not have those qualifiers. I have no problem with maximizing production - and using three trees to do it - at monarch and below.

I was responding to the statement about the higher levels requiring chopping and I assumed that the higher levels refers to something like deity or immortal, which I suppose I should've clarified...

If you can place a settler earlier you reap long term rewards.

or to cripple your economy... It takes some time for the city to pay for itself and until then you're taking the money out of your research. Usually I wouldn't put a city until I can make it grow quick - often that means that I need to research fishing fishing first (or AH). Admittedly, chopping the fishing boat in that city is a good idea in most cases.

This isn't just a production question. If military units are key, having the ability to chop a couple out is pretty useful.

Yeah, but it's often problematic. You don't want to chop within the range
of the capital because you need to get production (and maybe health) bonus and to get out of the range you need protection, so all together it takes quite a bit of resources to do. Besides, you need those forests outside to station your warriors, so that they get 50% bonus vs barbarians.

 

[ZippyRiver]

I tried a game similiar to this. I only chopped when necessary, and tried to get the most benefit when I did. I wanted to see how well a lumberyard intensive plan would work.

It was not bad, until I got invaded. Then not only did I lose expensive improvements, but the trogs got a great defensive bonus while doing it.

I still thrifty-chop when possible but to hell with leaving that kind of terrain lying around.