No Horses

[Thunderbrd]

The post script only removes horses within a specific part of the map, it never adds them anywhere.

And that's happening after the check that is intended to ensure there are a minimum of x horses somewhere on the map, right? (or does this script even have a minimum enforced amount of map resources segment?)

 

[Toffer90]

And that's happening after the check that is intended to ensure there are a minimum of x horses somewhere on the map, right? (or does this script even have a minimum enforced amount of map resources segment?)

This post script is the last thing that is done to any map at generation. (The world mapscript doesn't call it though, it's the only exception.)
It does not have any "minimum enforced amount of map resources segment".

 

[Thunderbrd]

It does not have any "minimum enforced amount of map resources segment".

Is that something only the World mapscript you did has?

Jeez... this needs to somehow be an XML driven standard step setup in the code I think... this should be universal!

 

[Toffer90]

Is that something only the World mapscript you did has?

No, World mapscript can end up not placing a resource on the map, though it will happen rarely, and will almost never happen with strategical resources as those are placed before most other resources and should thus always find valid plots to be placed on.
PerfectMongoose is very similar to World in this regard, so is PerfectWorld2 too.
There is code in these three map-scripts that tries to enforce the placement of all resources, but it can give up in certain cases.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There is code in these three map-scripts that tries to enforce the placement of all resources, but it can give up in certain cases.

I'm sure that's necessary on the smallest of maps... The main point is that it tries. But if it tries AFTER a replacement effort, it makes the failure of establishing a minimum amount a much more clear potential issue. hmm...

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Is that something only the World mapscript you did has?

Jeez... this needs to somehow be an XML driven standard step setup in the code I think... this should be universal!

The C2C post processing I wrote was done because of the fact that the map generation does not handle many things

• resources and terrains that have to be in special places eg mangroves and walrus need to be on the coast. There is no tag to say something has to be on a coast. Mangroves also need to be on march or lush terrain or next to a river.
  
  
• lakes(?), coast and sea terrains. Only Toffer's map script has them coded. Note that the extra water terrains have not been added. I have done some work on ocean currents that should affect ship travel but have no graphics for adding it to the game. Since it is only oceans and we don't have any oceanic features it could be done as features but then it should also include prevailing wind as well....
  
  
• goody islands and some other sea terrain features. The default map scripts only place sea terrain features next to where the suggested first cities are and actually appear to be done by the bit of code that places the first units. Something that is in the dll I think. Either way it is done after the final bit of Python for the map scripts. It is the reason that we have not added more sea terrain features.
  
  
• Attempt at replacing bonuses that are in the wrong region with ones that are appropriate. This was experimental and can be removed if you like. It was never finished.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I'm sure that's necessary on the smallest of maps... The main point is that it tries. But if it tries AFTER a replacement effort, it makes the failure of establishing a minimum amount a much more clear potential issue. hmm...

There is a step in the map creation where it counts the number of everything, after creation. I believe some mods that do check the number and do some processing afterwards.

The thing is "why shouldn't horses be extinct?". It is a valid possibility. They went extinct in the Americas before humans. It is an interesting scenario. It is like the time I had a continent with no grains, but plenty of potatoes, and could not make any alcohol!

 

[Thunderbrd]

Attempt at replacing bonuses that are in the wrong region with ones that are appropriate. This was experimental and can be removed if you like. It was never finished.

I like this but I think it somehow needs to then add a second check afterwards to ensure we didn't just remove all of a critical resource.

The thing is "why shouldn't horses be extinct?". It is a valid possibility. They went extinct in the Americas before humans. It is an interesting scenario. It is like the time I had a continent with no grains, but plenty of potatoes, and could not make any alcohol!

I would agree and put this in the category of a game or mapscript option to allow the second check to be ignored but I catch too much an earful from my wife when her map ends up without horses anywhere on it. In the mod design as it is now, it's too critical. Maybe eventually we can flesh out the rest of the riding sources enough to make it more possible.

 

[Yudishtira]

The thing is "why shouldn't horses be extinct?". It is a valid possibility. They went extinct in the Americas before humans. It is an interesting scenario. It is like the time I had a continent with no grains, but plenty of potatoes, and could not make any alcohol!

I love the idea that it is not set in stone which animals go extinct. The sabretooth, mammoth, glyptodon, elasmotherium, thylacine etc. should have a decent chance of surviving. Similarly just about every animal we know today should have a chance of going extinct 'instead'.

That said, I do think a mapscript should at least have an option to ensure the possibility for all civs to get mount animals (by which I mean horses OR camels, because elephants are too specialized and I believe all others require a wonder).

Also, why can't we make alcohol from potatoes? Seems like a bug.

 

[Toffer90]

Also, why can't we make alcohol from potatoes? Seems like a bug.

Mhm, akevitt (akvavit/aquavit) is a spirit principally made from potato.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I love the idea that it is not set in stone which animals go extinct. The sabretooth, mammoth, glyptodon, elasmotherium, thylacine etc. should have a decent chance of surviving. Similarly just about every animal we know today should have a chance of going extinct 'instead'.

It could be interesting to consider improved ways to manage extinctions...

Also, why can't we make alcohol from potatoes? Seems like a bug.

Agreed. Vodka!!!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I love the idea that it is not set in stone which animals go extinct. The sabretooth, mammoth, glyptodon, elasmotherium, thylacine etc. should have a decent chance of surviving. Similarly just about every animal we know today should have a chance of going extinct 'instead'.

That said, I do think a mapscript should at least have an option to ensure the possibility for all civs to get mount animals (by which I mean horses OR camels, because elephants are too specialized and I believe all others require a wonder).

Also, why can't we make alcohol from potatoes? Seems like a bug.

Mhm, akevitt (akvavit/aquavit) is a spirit principally made from potato.

The extinction event I was looking at building was going to work sort of like disease or plague but slightly different in that it would occur in all places at once and not spread. Herds in the city and bonuses that had been improved would have a lesser chance of going away but even if they were supposed to the player/AI would have a chance of throwing money/healers(vets) at it to save the animals. It could be changed to vary to other animals but there are diseases that exist and should be used instead I think. There is also the problem of the calendar not matching the tech dates.

There are three reasons for an animal to go extinct

• disease
• over hunting or encroachment on their lands by humans
• climate change

Currently we have the climate change one at around 40,000 BCE (mammoths and woolly rhinos etc) sort of done and the human encroachment one at 1400 CE for Moa.

The person who did the alcohol buildings left potatoes out and only considered grains and fruit as a source.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There is also the problem of the calendar not matching the tech dates.

Spawns can be based on the leader's tech level. It might be interesting to have them be turned off with an event but I don't like our event system enough to want to build into it so maybe a function call that python can access to turn off a spawn define may work?

I've been strongly considering the biome spawn mechanism and how that could be setup properly lately. It would solve a lot of issues we are having with certain spawn complaints and may be able to work in some of the animal resource stuff you were doing here that sparked this discussion. I'm not sure if I should prioritize it or not... I think at the moment there's a lot of more basic retooling stuff needed at the moment, but some discussion on it can't hurt.