No ICS

[civtilidy]

Civ IV tried to eliminate ICS and probably did the best job at limiting it through the city maintenance system as ICS uttetly wrecked the economy unless you had mid-late game civics, wonders, and corporations.
Civ V tried to eliminate ICS with global happiness system but inadvertantly made it one of the best strategies.
Civ VI tried to limit ICS through the amenities system, and districts made ICS sub-optimal. Ideally you want to plan your main districts after completing some basic scouting.
My point being that even if the devs are actively trying to limit ICS, doesn't mean they will necessarily succeed in Civ VII. It would be pointless having an "Expansionist" upgrade tree if you got punished too hard for expanding a lot.

Civ III is the best. No per city penalty and could settle with just 1 tile in between cities. I would settle a 100 cities in just a 20x20 square

 

[Lorizael]

100 cities. Do you... not like yourself?

 

[SammyKhalifa]

I'm more worried about crazy forward settling by the ai than the return of silly extreme ics.

 

[King of Prussia]

Even if loyalty doesnt return in Civ7, using a similar mechanic to keep the AI from settling like they are now would be a good starting point. Sometimes it looks like someone just threw paint at the map with each color being different civs intermixed. Of course, you would have to consider how important settling distant lands and not make the AI less likely to do it.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Looks like there are plenty of ways (depending on civ choice) to increase settlement limit. But also what we've seen from the preview videos is that it's fairly easy to keep your core developed cities happy, less so the undeveloped towns. Also it's not clear the flipping happens outside of a particular crisis.

What is ICs ? a kind of rebellions at the stage of loyalty shifts ?

 

[theadder]

What is ICs ? a kind of rebellions at the stage of loyalty shifts ?

Infinite city sprawl, a strategy where as many cities as possible as built.

 

[AriochIV]

This guy is on deity going way over settlement cap with no problem. Was at 9/4 with still positive happiness also while the unhappiness crisis is going on and at war with 2 civs.

He was 11/7 at the end of Antiquity, and at start of Exploration he was 9/9. He lost two settlements during the Dark Age.

Granted that he was having serious Happiness problems at transition, but that's still kinda not okay.

 

[Lorizael]

Agreed, that's not okay. Very irresponsible empire management.

 

[ggmoyang]

This guy is on deity going way over settlement cap with no problem. Was at 9/4 with still positive happiness also while the unhappiness crisis is going on and at war with 2 civs.

I checked the video, several of his settlements were at -15~20 level for several turns and two settlements ended up revolting.
But the global happiness was positive all the time, I don't understand how that works.

 

[Xyael]

I checked the video, several of his settlements were at -15~20 level for several turns and two settlements ended up revolting.
But the global happiness was positive all the time, I don't understand how that works.

Global hapiness ≠ Settlements hapiness

If the hapiness of a settlement is negative too long, it will revolt

 

[Nikolai II]

He was 11/7 at the end of Antiquity, and at start of Exploration he was 9/9. He lost two settlements during the Dark Age.

Granted that he was having serious Happiness problems at transition, but that's still kinda not okay.

He said himself he lost one to revolt at the last turn. Turn before he was in danger of losing five. Sounds to me it was the crisis that did him in at the last turn.

 

[Krikkit1]

Global hapiness ≠ Settlements hapiness

There needs to be some relationship, what is it? (ie Global is the sum of positive settlement happiness, etc)

 

[Xyael]

There needs to be some relationship, what is it? (ie Global is the sum of positive settlement happiness, etc)

A sum I think

 

[Krikkit1]

A sum I think

Just the positive happinesses? all of the happinesses?
just the cities?

 

[stealth_nsk]

We had exactly the same system in Civ5:
- Each city has its own happiness
- Sum of all city happiness forms the global happiness
- Accumulating global happiness triggers golden age (Civ5) or celebration (Civ7)

The biggest difference is that in Civ5 each city caused some unhappiness by the fact of its existence, while in Civ7 we have city limit, before which no happiness penalties, but afterwards they are dramatic. That's good.

We also need to look at the happiness sources - unlike Civ5, Civ7 has a lot of happiness from tiles, so I believe city happiness management is totally different.

 

[ggmoyang]

Plain sum is probably the simplest mechanic, but I doubt if he had enough happiness to counter all the unhappiness.

But the happiness goes up to +134 with age transition so... I don't understand.

 

[Siptah]

View attachment 716087
Plain sum is probably the simplest mechanic, but I doubt if he had enough happiness to counter all the unhappiness.

But the happiness goes up to +134 with age transition so... I don't understand.

The age transition ended the crisis, and he had massive happiness penalties from crisis policies.

 

[AriochIV]

Perhaps global happiness is the sum of the cumulative excess from turn to turn, so it stays positive even if all your cities go negative.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Perhaps global happiness is the sum of the cumulative excess from turn to turn, so it stays positive even if all your cities go negative.

Yes, it looks like there's some addition to global happiness, which makes it positive even if cities are in disaster. Need to crack this. Do we have any screenshot with global happiness sources breakdown?

I have a guess what there are no penalties for negative global happiness, so the numbers were designed to keep global happiness in positive range - that way anything affecting happiness changes how often you'll have celebrations. Maybe it's just some flat bonus.

 

[Krikkit1]

Yes, it looks like there's some addition to global happiness, which makes it positive even if cities are in disaster. Need to crack this. Do we have any screenshot with global happiness sources breakdown?

I have a guess what there are no penalties for negative global happiness, so the numbers were designed to keep global happiness in positive range - that way anything affecting happiness changes how often you'll have celebrations. Maybe it's just some flat bonus.

The simpler way to do that would be only settlements with net positive happiness add to global happiness.

(ones with net negative tend to rebel)